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HeliTorque :: View topic - North Sea Ditching 1st April 2009
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Flight Safety

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North Sea Ditching 1st April 2009 Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
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fendersim
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James T Lowe wrote:
fendersim wrote:
This is just getting plain ridiculous now. The press are lazy, and just picking up on everything NS related incident now.


Always the way, fendersim. As soon as a major incident happens, be it aviation, trains, or otherwise, the minor incidents seem to get reported far far more than ever before. Might be because of a temporarily increased public "appetite" for such stories? It's a phenomenon that I reckon lasts about a month. Then they lose interest....


Agreed. At least it makes a change from THE RECESSION ECONOMIC CRISIS DOOM...
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WhirlyGuy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fendersim wrote:

Agreed. At least it makes a change from THE RECESSION ECONOMIC CRISIS DOOM...


Think yourselves lucky you don't have to make flaming radio adverts each and every day where everyone wants to keep on harping on about the recession Wink It really is blooming annoying now. When will people learn?!!

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veeany
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The AAIB have just released Special Bulletin 5/2009 on the G-REDL crash

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/special_bulletins/s5_2009___eurocopter_as332l2_super_puma__g_redl.cfm

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haggishunter
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's good that there is a through ongoing investigation even after the cause of accident was identified.

HH
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HeliCraig
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaggisHunter wrote:
It's good that there is a through ongoing investigation even after the cause of accident was identified.

HH


The lengths the AAIB go to sometimes just defy me - so very thorough. We all live / fly in their gratitude every day..
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What this report brings out is a flaw in the chip detection system in the L2. The fact that HUMS detectd so many chips in such a short spell of time should be brought to the crews attention. Although it was the case that if they had been aware then there was still no time to set up a controlled ditching. Very sed indeed.

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animalsticks
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well that was a long read but well worth it, hats off to the AAIB, such a terrible yet cool job to have. really interesting yet so terribly sad to have to do it.

HaggisHunter wrote:
What this report brings out is a flaw in the chip detection system in the L2. ... if they had been aware then there was still no time to set up a controlled ditching..


HH how long does it take to set up for a controlled ditch? i'm not sure of procedures in offshore ops.

The reason i ask is had there been better chip detection warning, then i see a window of almost 3 mins between the HUMS recording of detection and the first clue the crew appear to have in the final few secs.

AAIB Special Bulletin: 5/2009 G-REDL EW/C2009/04/01
© Crown copyright 2009 wrote:
Recorded flight data identified ... at a radio altitude of 2,000 ft. At approximately 1251:19 hrs a chip1 was detected by the epicyclic gearbox magnetic chip detector plug...
1 Chip - a small sliver or flake of metallic/magnetic material.

...the next minute and 43  seconds, three further chips were apparently detected. The design of the chip detection system is such that the flight crew would not have been aware of these detections, although as noted earlier, they were logged by the HUMS.

AAIB Special Bulletin: 5/2009 G-REDL EW/C2009/04/01
© Crown copyright 2009 wrote:
At approximately 1254:01 hrs, the first officer made a radio call to company operations indicating that the helicopter was ‘serviceable’ and was expected to arrive in Aberdeen at 1314 hrs. Seventeen seconds later, a main rotor gearbox (MRG) low oil pressure warning was recorded on the CVFDR, with an associated reduction in recorded MRG oil pressure. After this, a deviation from cruise flight can be seen with the crew responding with flight control inputs which appeared to have had only a limited effect.


would this have been long enough to set up for a controlled ditching from 2000 feet? would it have been long enough to get to a very low altitude so as to allow a reaction in the final 17secs that may have meant a greater chance of survival? I realise this is all speculation and apologise for the long post.

As your in the job you can make a better call on this based on experience Idea
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haggishunter
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditching procedures are a memory item of the emergency checklist, there's not too many things to do, press some buttons, arm the floats and speak to ATC and passengers... but that's a controlled ditching. Auto-ing an aicraft to the water from 2-3000' leaves you very little time to do these items, mayday calls may be very brief and pax briefings will be short and sweet as they will be fully aware of what is going on.

The crews first indication was low gearbox pressure, most crews at my company would probably initiate a descent whilst the emergency checklist was delt with. This mainly being due to the recent events in Canada.

Not having flowen the Puma I am not too sure of their ditching checklist and company procedures. Certainly if they were lower say 1-200ft agl, the chances of survival may have been increased... but probably not by enough, as I believe the majority of fatalities were due to the high forces put upon the occupants dring the break up of the aircraft.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaggisHunter wrote:
... but probably not by enough, as I believe the majority of fatalities were due to the high forces put upon the occupants dring the break up of the aircraft.


Sobering thought
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veeany
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: Dedication of my Helicopter Safety Work Reply with quote

Shortly after the accident it was decided to dedicate the 'Helicopter Safety Uk' website, research and safety events in memory of Paul Burnham.

I have only just recently put together a short page on the site about Paul, it can be found here http://www.helicoptersafety.org/dedication.asp

It is my way to ensure we do not forget and to honour a good friend.


Last edited by veeany on Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dark007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Veeany,

That was a nice tribute. It leads to a dead link however because of the fullstop at the end of the link. A quick edit should do the trick.

Kevin
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James T Lowe
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The AAIB have, today, published their formal report into this sad accident.
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