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HeliTorque Forum Index » Flight Dynamics

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whirlygig
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My instructor simulated this as part of PPL (not in the syllabus I know but he liked doing this sort of thing!!). He kept his hand on the collective so it wouldn't move and he wanted to see of I could land that aircraft.

He explained that it had really happened to an army colleague of his and so would be a useful emergency for me to practice!! From what I remember, it was a combination of throttle control and speed. The faster you go, you descend etc.

Naturally, as a student who had only just gone solo, I couldn't do it but he demonstrated it. When I asked him if that was how his mate landed, he said "Nah, he used brute force and ignorance and broke it" Well, he lives to tell the tale.

Cheers

Whirlygig
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WhirlyGirl
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol! Sounds complicated. Just now I am still getting the hang of landing!! But one day I'll learn all these complex things...

Are these man??uvres part of any syllabus (commercial or instructor ratings) or are they skills which are passed on by experienced pilots simply demonstrating them (like Whirygig's instructor)? I should imagine these skills are quite essential to have if you are instructing...

WhirlyGirl Cool
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whirlygig
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:00 pm    Post subject: Syllabi Reply with quote

Not sure whether collective jam or tail rotor failure are part of any syllabus but I'll find out.

My instructor was quite conscientious like that and I was made to do tail rotor failure several simulated by putting your feet on the floor. I found it easier than full engine-off because, if you haven't got it right you can go around.

The principle is to establish the slowest speed you can go without the aircraft yawing. You do this at straight and level flight. Then land without going slower than this speed but you do have full engine, cyclic and collective.

When you get to the latter stages of your course ask your instructor at least demonstrate these and talk to him about whether you can have a go especially if you wish to continue your training.

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Whirlygig
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helogadget
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar thing happen in a UH-1H. The door wasn't locked and I couldn't get closed enough to latch. I decided to open it a little and slam it...WRONG! It was all I could do to hold onto it while the copilot QUICKLY brought our airspeed back to a hover. Only then could I get it to latch.... Skeered me to say the least!

--Steve
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WhirlyGirl
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome helogadget!!

Sounds like a scary experience. Mind you all experiences can be learnt from can't they!

WhirlyGirl Cool
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R22-Adam
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once saw an R22 stripped down for a rebuild, and while looking at it, it made me realise that there are actually quite a few bits and gubbins between the seats and behind the backrests on these machines, all with various couplings etc...

We spend a lot of time checking all the visible couplings and links and other stuff during the checks, but it made me wonder how many times these hidden ones get checked....and to be honest, i think it's only when they do a rebuild that they remove all the seats and panels.....makes you think!!!
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Bierbuikje
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I???ve had to close a door a few times after it came open in flight (R44, B206 and EC120) I found if you open the window on the opposite door or open the air vent this will help equalise the air pressure inside and outside the helicopter and make the door a lot easier to close.

I knew one pilot who lost the aircraft documents when a door opened in flight, never place anything between a seat and a door.

I regard to stuck pedal practice we teach it to our students with the pedals stuck left forward, equal and right forward in general a low powered approach at the lowest speed/low power setting combination to keep the helicopter nose pointing straight ahead should do the job, wind on the opposite side of the nose to where the pedal is stuck will help combat torque effect through weather cocking. You can also use the throttle to help combat torque effect.

The original question was related to the collective not going down; I would have checked was either collective blocked by anything? A few years ago I flew with a student to another airport (I was sat left seat) at the landing site I removed the dual controls collected a photographer, conducted a photo flight, reinstalled the dual controls and the student flew us back to base with me sat again in the left seat. On landing the collective would not go fully down (last inch) and my seat belt tightened as the student downed the collective, I undone my seat belt and the student landed with no further problems, I then proceeded to kick my self in the ass for making such a stupid mistake and not checking the collective was not free from the seat belt when I reinstalled the duals?

Finally I'd say if you???re sensible you can do a lot to prevent something like this occurring, always check you???ve got nothing in the cockpit with could jam the controls; example mobile phone slips forward jams the pedals etc etc (This happened in the UK a few years back)
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Ascend_Charlie
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going back to the original question, we used to play with the Hueys doing just that - set the power, and try to land.

Easy - pull the speed right back till you are on the backside of the drag curve - with 22" in an R44, you will almost be hovering. After the initial zoom climb, the descent will start, and you just play the descent with careful use of attitude to gain/lose speed. Approaching ground level, pick up speed and fly it on - but get too enthusiastic here and you are back in a climb.

Roll off the throttle at your own risk - if you accidentally take them too low, and the pitch is fixed, you might find the engine doesn't have the power to accelerate the rotor fast enough to avoid RRPM deterioration and ..... splat...
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