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HeliTorque :: View topic - Datcons
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Flight Dynamics

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James T Lowe
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite! If I'm paying for the hours, I'm logging them! Wink

What about the short repositioning flights, say to the fuel pumps, where the datcon only clicks over 0.1? Do you log 0 hours? Naa, that doesn't make sense at all.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Short trip to the fuel pumps? You know that fiddling about and re-positioning at the fuel pumps at kemble cost us a 0.3? I think they need to make the fuel pump lead longer!!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, well, that was a bit, ummm, of a faff, wasn't it? Twisted Evil Mad

I was rather meaning, at a field, where the fuel pumps are clear of aircraft, and you don't have that far to fly to get to them. It's going to be 0.1 or thereabouts (maybe 0.15)? Confused
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

During my studies of the Information Manual for the 300, it specifies THREE places the meter can be seen (if fitted). Named 'one standard and two optional'.

1. The engine meter showing hours running time
2. The skids meter showing the hours off the ground
3. The collective meter showing hours flying

No 1 specifies it runs when main rotor transmission oil pressure is above the minimum value (main rotor turning, warning light out) so MAYBE the cost of start-up is reduced to absolute minumum by this? On shut down, you keep running til CHT drops after 3 minutes (2 mins at 2300 rpm and 1 min at 2000rpm) then declutch and on needle split, pull mixture to kill engine. No multiplcation factor.

No 2 records time whenever the a/c is in flight - no weight on landing gear - it "records flight time or time in service." No multiplication factor.

No 3 records time when the MRT oil pressure is above the minimum value and collective is off the (down) stop. Collective down manoeuvres would be obviated by this switch - i.e. autos, so to compensate for unrecorded time the reading value has to be multiplied by 1.2 when used to determine periodic inspection requirements.

It says also "Flight hours recorded by the pilot should be used to confirm the accuracy of the hourmeter reading(s)"

Tippex out lads.

FF

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:06 am    Post subject: Logging Datacon Times Reply with quote

To clarify, you log and pay for the total time via the datacon, however, your tech log time is subtracted by .1! Hope this clarifies the situation. Autorotate
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where does that come from Autorotate? It's certainly not something which is followed at EMH. And I can't say I've ever heard of that before. Confused

I wonder if it's a local rule for a particular operator? But even then, they're running the risk of over-lifing a helicopter, as I don't think Robinson have such a directive.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:51 pm    Post subject: Datacon readings Reply with quote

I have flown at 3 seperate schools and bought my R22 from a fourth and this is what they all do!!! I'll do some digging around and find out where this comes from. I know that the 4 companies concerned are totally 100% reputable so I'll let you know.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've run both systems at different schools. It depends on who does the maintenance, and how they want you to log it. It's all CAA approved, either way.

The one problem with removing 0.1 is that when you come to sell the machine, the figures don't marry up at all. One of my schools used to make a written note of the ACTUAL hours in a spare space on the tech log, just for the record. This isn't a legal requirement.

The reason most often given for the deduction is that it is feasible to assume that uring start up and shut down, the machine suffers distinctly less wear and tear than when running at full pelt, and therefore it is allowed for you to deduct 0.1 from the maintenance schedule, as it needs less maintaining that if you were up at 100% as soon as you started.

Effectively, for every 50 hours of datcon time, you're gaining 5 hours....or should I say, if you didn't deduct the 0.1, then you would effectively have to send the machine in 5 hours earlier, so you can see the savings that the owner/school makes.....quite a difference.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam - yes, exactly. 2200 hours.. or 2420 hours..?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the deal is if the operator knocks off 0.1 from the trip he is logging flight time therfor if he/she/they do a ground run post maintenance etc it is not logged as the aircraft never went flying.

the downside is that (in a robbie) the aircraft hours for an aircraft maintained on flight time is less something like 1850 flight hours as opposed to 2200 datcom hours.

incidentally lots of machines have no meter as such to log the hours and rely on the pilot to fill in the flight time in the tech log.

incidentally in the ANO flight is still classed as; the moment the helicopter first moves under its own power until the time the blades come to rest, great if you are in a jetranger with no rotor brake lol.


Last edited by northernhero on Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:24 am    Post subject: Bank notes Reply with quote

Helicopters fall into the same category as yachts. A yachting simulator is standing in a cold shower, wearing all your clothes and tearing up banknotes.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:55 am    Post subject: early lessons ! Reply with quote

Interesting thread, and something certainly to think about, I have sometimes been the 1st user of a R22, during a cold winter morning, So, the startup procedure, takes a lot longer, than an afternoon based lesson, I guess, I'd get 2 or 3 mins extra flying, for a similar cost, by using an already "warmed" up machine ?
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