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HeliTorque :: View topic - JetRanger 'Hot starts.'
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Flight Dynamics

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JetRanger 'Hot starts.' Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
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KBayDog
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigMike wrote:
Which model 206 dosn't let you start with the battery on?


Our JR IIIs (B-3) require the battery to be off prior to an external power start (we have to give a "thumbs up" to the lineman to signal that the battery is secured). After the engine is running, the external power is removed, and the battery is switched on.
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weekend warrior
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by weekend warrior on Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BigMike
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you needed to sit down and have a beer after all that Wink

Have you looked at using Hawker High Energy batterys in your JR? We used them when I was flying 206s in the Oz outback. Work really well and never had a problem with low power.
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James T Lowe
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

weekend warrior wrote:
James T Lowe wrote:
That'll be a B-somethingelse with more than one engine that Wozza's referring to... Wink

It wasn't a B-anything. But you're right - it wasn't a Jetranger. Wink


Ah, it was a J-somethingelse then!! Wink Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by weekend warrior on Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by weekend warrior on Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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KBayDog
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting diagram. In your schematic, it certainly appears that you can utilize external power in parallel with the battery (I am not an EE, so don't quote me on that).

The schematic I have for a B3 (like you, though, I have no specific serial numbers, but I'm sure that the wiring has been tinkered with numerous times over the years) shows the External Power Relay connected through the Battery Relay, not in parallel, enroute to the common bus.

The flow is: External power recepticle → External Power Relay → Battery Relay → Common Bus.

The only protection for the battery (i.e., to keep the external power unit from powering both the battery and the bus) is the battery switch.

I only have experience with 28V/400A diesel APUs, so the concern in this case would be overloading the battery, not draining the APU.

Someone much smarter than me came up with the checklist, so I would never deviate from it (especially since my employer doesn't exactly give me that option Wink ). Still, it's always fun - and educational - to think through "why" we do what we do in the aircraft. The better we know our aircraft, the better able we are to handle anything that comes our way...uh, not that anything abnormal ever happens in helicopters, right? Very Happy
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biggruntbravo
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:42 am    Post subject: Question Reply with quote

i am in army rotary wing flight training now and am flying the bell jet ranger 206 "TH-67" and although i havent had time to read all of the replies on that, if someone needs the military adapted FAA operators manual i have it on disk and could prob send it to anyone. it has all the e/p and limits and all that mumbo jumbo is what i will call it while im cramming a couple of chapters in my head. just tossing that out there, if it is of no concern please disreguard this post.

Newbie Pilot
but hey i have about 28.5 hours now lmao
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by weekend warrior on Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bell417
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to add some clarification if I may. While everything that has been said is mostly true and accurate, I feel I may be able to add a bit here.

I have been taught the term "Hot Start" is used for an actual exceedance, as pointed out already, when the combustion flame actually makes contact with the liner. The six, or so, "aborted" starts are just that, aborted and not neccessarily "hot starts". Many reasons have been pointed out which may cause hot starts, and I would like to add one other...starting on a warm day with a tailwind. Nothing like good ole mother nature blowing wind up the exhaust, which could lead to increased TOT temps!

In regards to starting with a Battery Cart...I have been taught ( and have read in the Flight Manual) the battery switch needs to stay in the "off" position for these types of starts. I believe the ship's weak battery can rob energy from the battery cart resulting in lower voltage starts, than on the cart alone.

When a GPU/APU is hooked up, the battery switch is put into the "On" position during the start. I beleive this allows the GPU/APU to initiate the battery charge.

One other thing...in the B3, the Flight Manual states the starter can be released at 58%...I've been taught this is actually the point of self-sustainment for the Jet Ranger...now some can disagree, I'm good with that...I've heard from many different operators who each have a unique magic number, however the number is dependant upon other environmental and mechanical factors, and I'm sure whomever wrote the manual had those factors in mind. Smile

Fly Safe!

Scott
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by weekend warrior on Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bell417
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You say tomatoe, I say tomatoe?

Perhaps it's the difference in paradigm between a pilot's perspective and an a mechanic's perspective? As far as the mechanic is concerned, if it doesn't exceed a termp limit then it's not a hot start. As far as the pilot is concerned, the start was aborted because it was about to exceed a temp limit. Two sides of the same coin?


220 - 221?
Very Happy

Indeed, one of the greatest fortunes of having the opprotunity to work at the Academy is the close relationships I've built with both the Instructor Pilots and our Mechanics crew. You are exactly right though...you say tomatoe, I say tomatoe...and I'll point out, that's just how I was taught, i had never meant to correct...sorry if I came accross in such a way.

Scott
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paco
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the North Albertan outback we had a ship with a battery that was a bit suspect, so we carried a spare that we used to help it start and to run the external fuel pump (i.e. we used it as an external start). The battery was switched on as well. We then used to sit there for 15 minutes or so to charge them both back up at once, so on that particular ship there wasn't an automatic cutout..

This is not to say that you should, because the FM says that the battery should be switched off if an external start is fitted, but it might help someone out of a wet field one day.

Phil
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by weekend warrior on Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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paco
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looking back in the logbook (Red Earth - eek!) it might have been 206B C-GWML, with a remote chance of it being GNNK. It belonged to Northern Mountain at the time.

Phil
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