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HeliTorque :: View topic - which one to learn to fly R22/R44?
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Wannabes

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which one to learn to fly R22/R44? Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
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Bomb_Doctor
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK - perhaps 'money no object' was the wrong turn of phrase to use. I'm not Prince William Smile - money always comes into the equation somewhere along the line. It's just that working out here I have a surplus at the moment and I'll only go and spend it on something silly (or sensible) if I don't do the PPL(H)

The way I see it, the R44 is circa 410ph and the Jet Ranger is circa 480ph (give or take) and I'm sure I could get a better price if I block book/haggle/plead/beg.

So for the extra 70ph (in for a penny, in for a pound!) would I get more out of it??

109's are circa 1100ph..... I like flying - but not that much! Smile
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PilotWolf
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just out of interest where are you finding a 206 at 480 ph? Assume that is dual and plus VAT?

W.
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Bomb_Doctor
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are quite a few around - this one for example: http://www.tigerhelicopters.co.uk/prices.htm

Yes Dual +VAT
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Jen
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My school's currently adding 15/hr fuel surcharge on the R22 - you might need to factor that in too.
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Bomb_Doctor
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jen wrote:
My school's currently adding 15/hr fuel surcharge on the R22 - you might need to factor that in too.


Just as the price of oil is hitting $90 a barrel!!

Robbing Barstewards!! Smile Smile lol
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finding-my-feet
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi there done 10hrs in R44. which was very good, then tryed to fly a R22 today and it felt like starting all over again it was so hard to control. has any one else exp this? so i think i will stick with the R44.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which 44? I found the early ones similar to the 22 but the hydraulic equipped very different to fly.

Plus have you only done 10 hours total? If so I would have thought any change of aircraft would make things hard.

W.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW I'd learn on the R44 if you're discounting the R22 based on your size.

Cheaper costs and far more mechanically forgiving. Hot start or over torque a 206 and the bill WILL make your eyes water. As an indication I know of a CPL who over torqued a 206 about three years ago, the final bill for about 6 seconds of difficulty was in excess of 120K. Not only that many places that SFH 206's will insist on a safety pilot for some hours post licence/ type rating issue.

What I'd also advise you consider is that very few people achieve anything in mimimum time. Saving 70 p/hr would over a 45 hour course leave you with an additional 3150 in your wallet and with the National ppl average approaching 60 hours an additional 4200. IMHO significant numbers if you're long term plan may include a CPL.

On that subject also consider that it is almost impossible to find work as a newly qualified CPL.

A JAA CPL if you save every penny possible and do nearly all your flying in an R22 will leave you roughly 45K lighter. Adding an FI rating or an IR will make the total bill closer to 75K. And all with no guarantee of any job at the end of it.

Apologies for a reality check. All I'm trying to do is provide food for thought.

Regards,
FW
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Hughes500
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

120k someone has been well ripped off unless pilot went for a monster overtorque.
C20b engine in a jetbanger is working well under its normal power load. Engine rated at 420shp , 206 uses 375 at 100% tq. Even if you burnt out the turbine at worst that is 60k for a brandspanker. The transmission normally survives. I would love to know who got the bill up there. Mind you should be insured for that sort of thing
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flingingwings
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hughes500,

Was a downwind approach at almost all up weight.
Stopping the inevitable bump at the bottom led to a significant OvrTq.

aircraft was insured but final bill was as detailed. A lot of damage inflicted in a matter of seconds. Hardly a confidence boost if you were/are a low hours student that does similar soon after licence issue.

FW
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Hughes500
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Begs the question on a cpl's training and what was he thinking doing a downwind approach espically in a jetbanger which are useless when at max weight and downwind
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veeany
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If its the one I am thinking about, wasn't the damage caused by the Over Tq minimal or none existent, the inspection cost a bit of money and revealed a load of parts that should never have been in the gearbox (perhaps because of a paperwork issue). If the event had never taken place no one would ever have known !!

The guy deserves a pat on the back for coughing to it (shouldn't have happened but none of us is perfect), I know several pilots who have done the same or worse and said nothing, one is (or was) an examiner and would REGULARLY allow people to do the same to his 206 and say nothing.

Don't get me started on Overtemps and people who look the other way.
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WhirlyGirl
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where you based bomb? We also apply a fuel surcharge (though not as much as Jen's I don't think). Although the price of fuel at the petrol pumps has come back down, AVGAS seems to be going up or at least not showing any signs of coming down. You should see what some of our group had to pay in France for AVGAS. Really makes your eyes water! Thought Britain was a rip-off!

Sarah
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WindSwept
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like 2.09 euro's per litre Shocked Shocked plus VAT, plus police charges plus landing fee lol.
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Bomb_Doctor
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Replies!! Thought everyone was ignoring me Sad lol

Thanks everyone - it's a big step making that leap into the unknown.... Well, I'm determined to do the PPL(H) and see how I go... Unless I can make some contacts along the way who are going to let me loose in their Helicopters as a new CPL(H)... PPL(H) is where I will stay I think Sad

Hi WhirlyGirl - I'm based in 'Tiger Country' although I am not sure I will train there. There are a few schools at Staverton which look good. I am back from Baghdad in early November, so will break out the bike and go round them all. I want to make sure I know who I'm giving my 20k (poss 75k!)to.

As for the choice of training Helicopter; I've spoken to a fair few people. Some have said that if going CPL(H) then turbine time is key... they have a 206 and EC-120 to learn in (490/460 respectively).... Now I do love the EC-120!! Smile Great looking bit of kit...... reminds me of my Gazelle days only more 'pimped' Smile

A lot of other people have said that the R44 is the way forward..... usually from those schools who have R44's. I'm not saying people are giving me a bum steer, but it's a little too convenient. In my line of work - there is no such thing as coincidence...

The wind has changed direction here today, everything now flares on finals exactly over my room! 2 x Pumas inbound as I type.... God I love the smell of Avtur in the night Smile
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