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HeliTorque :: View topic - which one to learn to fly R22/R44?
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Wannabes

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which one to learn to fly R22/R44? Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
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finding-my-feet
Shy 'Torquer
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:15 am    Post subject: which one to learn to fly R22/R44? Reply with quote

hi all just became a new member. took my first lession yesterday in a R44 and was wondering if i should stick to that or move down to the R22? the one i would buy if i was to pass would be a R44. this was my first trial yesterday and i loved it. couldnt sleep last night wanting sunday to be here so i can get back up again. after spending all my money on cars thru the years, they did not give me the BUZZ!!!! what i got yesterday. im am really worried about trying to get a PPLH it looks really hard. any sugg?

jason
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jason, first of all welcome!

Ive just started learning to fly, just poked over the 6 hours yesterday, im learning in an R22.

Ive never flown in an R44 before other than a 5 min pleasure flight when i was alot younger. So i will leave it to the experts to debate over the R22/R44 which i better to fly.

I guess for me the choice of aircraft is simply due to cost, i couldn't afford to do my whole PPL(H) on an R44 or there would be nothing left to make progress on a CPL Twisted Evil

Initial things i could think of might be, you've already got more seats so wouldn't need to do a type conversion later on to fly more people, you have abit more power there and a slightly more stable aircraft (due to it being a bit bigger).

Learning for my PPL(H) seems ok at the minute, theres a briefing long/short depending on what were doing with the instructor and she goes through everything were going to practice, then any questions and go up and do it for real with demonstrations. I find that bit not too bad, its not hard to understand and everything your learning on the board is demonstrated in the air so it all makes perfect sense!

The second part to it is studying for the exams, which is usually self study, but i imagine your instructor would be happy to answer any questions you are getting from the background reading.

I think the best way to think of it would be a voccational course, or A-level. Its sort of that standard but far more varied (physics, psychology, law etc..) all in one. So you've got various subjects to study for and multiple choice exams to take. As well as the flying skills test.

What are you plans for the future, do you want to continue with your PPL(H) and do a commercial course or just want to fly for a hobby?

Im sure some of our expert FI's will jump in and help out!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jason,

Welcome to Helitorque!

I think the choice of helicopter will depend on what you want to be doing with your licence once you've got it! That, along with cost!

If money's not a problem, then out of the R22/R44, I would say learn on the R44. I think Robinson would prefer it that way, too.

If money's no object, and you're thinking of turbine heli's later, then why not learn on those?

All that said, the R22 is a great simple little helicopter, that serves its purpose well. I'm sure a great many helicopter pilots wouldn't be helicopter pilots if it wasn't for the R22, me included - it has bought that dream within the reach of a great many more folks!

And the usual shameless plug - if you've not seen it already, you might like to have a look at my training diary to give you an idea of what the course involves. And of course, any questions or thoughts, then you have the whole HeliTorque membership here to help!

Out of interest, where are you learning?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walker wrote:
Hey Jason, first of all welcome!

Ive just started learning to fly, just poked over the 6 hours yesterday, im learning in an R22.

Ive never flown in an R44 before other than a 5 min pleasure flight when i was alot younger. So i will leave it to the experts to debate over the R22/R44 which i better to fly.

I guess for me the choice of aircraft is simply due to cost, i couldn't afford to do my whole PPL(H) on an R44 or there would be nothing left to make progress on a CPL Twisted Evil

Initial things i could think of might be, you've already got more seats so wouldn't need to do a type conversion later on to fly more people, you have abit more power there and a slightly more stable aircraft (due to it being a bit bigger).

Learning for my PPL(H) seems ok at the minute, theres a briefing long/short depending on what were doing with the instructor and she goes through everything were going to practice, then any questions and go up and do it for real with demonstrations. I find that bit not too bad, its not hard to understand and everything your learning on the board is demonstrated in the air so it all makes perfect sense!

The second part to it is studying for the exams, which is usually self study, but i imagine your instructor would be happy to answer any questions you are getting from the background reading.

I think the best way to think of it would be a voccational course, or A-level. Its sort of that standard but far more varied (physics, psychology, law etc..) all in one. So you've got various subjects to study for and multiple choice exams to take. As well as the flying skills test.

What are you plans for the future, do you want to continue with your PPL(H) and do a commercial course or just want to fly for a hobby?

Im sure some of our expert FI's will jump in and help out!
thanks for the reply walker im looking to fly for a hobby.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your looking to fly for a hobby are you looking to take passangers around and about. Obviously which helicopter you would buy in the end would be up to you, obviously if you ended up buying a Twin Squirrel (expensive) then it would be hugely expensive to learn on one for your whole PPL(H) in which case learning on an R22 and then converting would probably be cheaper.

However if your looking at buying an R44, thats in your price range and is the helicopter you want at the end of it then its only a step up so to speak from an R22 therefore if money isn't an issue learning on that helicopter (which isn't the same price jump per hour as it would be for the twin squirrel example) then i would go ahead and learn in what you intend to fly.

(p.s James - how nice it would be to learn to fly on a turbine lol)
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James T Lowe wrote:
Hi Jason,

Welcome to Helitorque!

I think the choice of helicopter will depend on what you want to be doing with your licence once you've got it! That, along with cost!

If money's not a problem, then out of the R22/R44, I would say learn on the R44. I think Robinson would prefer it that way, too.

If money's no object, and you're thinking of turbine heli's later, then why not learn on those?

All that said, the R22 is a great simple little helicopter, that serves its purpose well. I'm sure a great many helicopter pilots wouldn't be helicopter pilots if it wasn't for the R22, me included - it has bought that dream within the reach of a great many more folks!

And the usual shameless plug - if you've not seen it already, you might like to have a look at my training diary to give you an idea of what the course involves. And of course, any questions or thoughts, then you have the whole HeliTorque membership here to help!

Out of interest, where are you learning?
hi james im learning from blackpool helicenter. any good or bad reports?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walker wrote:
(p.s James - how nice it would be to learn to fly on a turbine lol)


Oh yes.. Very Happy

And there are people that do it - consider a JetRanger for example. It's not inconceivable that if you've got the dosh, you pop out and buy a Ranger, and get someone to teach you on it... that keeps the cost down, as aside from running cost, you're only then paying an instructor.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:14 am    Post subject: finding my feet Reply with quote

Flying helicopters takes time and patience.

There is no shame in flying the R-22 which actually is a bit harder to fly than the R-44. You can always step into an R-44 in a few hours after you finish certification.

I personally think that it makes a much better pilot who knows how to handle different machines in the same class.

I flew a Bell 47 before the Bell 206 turbine, and the Schweizer 300C, 300CB and 300CBI series before the Hughes 500 turbine

What you buy is another story.....another thread.

Good luck.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pick the R22 - it's cheaper meaning more money when you're done to play!!! trust me you'll be glad you did.
i've just flown a jetranger (my first turbine) for the 1st time and the difference in handling skills between that (a bigger machine) and an R22 is huge.

even if money is of no issue the skills learnt flying the R22 (it's a bit twitchy) will benefit you hugely - enjoy!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I've done my trial lesson - great fun and just confirmed what I already knew - I want to be a Helicopter pilot!


My local school has the R22, R44 and a Jet Ranger.

I think the R22 is out of the question as I'm 6ft1 and about 16 Stone Sad 2 up definitely, but solo is a maybe.

The R44 is about 400 an hour with the Jet Ranger only a little bit more.

In the grand scheme of things, the extra for the Jet Ranger isn't that much - but what would be the best for me to train in? Is the JR any good for training?

I'm looking at going commercial in the end - Would it be conceivable to do the PPL(H) in the Jet Ranger and then doing my solo hour building in the R22??

Sooo many questions!!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm 5'4" and have to use a cushion to comfortably reach the pedals in the R22 Embarassed Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bomb_ Doctor

I believe the seat limit in the R22 is 17 stone - happy to be corrected. I remember having a trail lesson and I had trouble getting down to that weight, think I weighed in at 16st 10lbs.

I'm 6ft 5 in and I fitted into the R22 for the trial lesson, may be a bit easier with the cyclic as a T bar and not rooting up between your legs.

I believe Hughes 500 has taught some tall students in the Schweizer 300.

To counterbalance the weight issue, find a lighweight instructor. We all know a nice young good looking female instructor at the Helicentre in Coventry.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

R22 Seat Weight Limit is 240lb, or 17st 2lbs.

That is to include the weight of the passenger, and anything stowed under the seat.

(I've seen places promote trial lessons with a limit of 17st; I'd imagine that's to provide a couple of pounds margin for error there.)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin

Taught a couple of big people
1. Ash ex special forces 6ft 5 18 st
2. Andrew 6ft 5 19 st

The 300c handled them well, although most lessons were limited power ! As I weigh 16st !!!

Engine off landings were no problem, used 12 gals of fuel so were just in fwd c of g

Only real drama was confined areas with a vertical take off in no wind in the summer, very interesting !!!!!!

If you are going to fly, fly in a proper helicopter, not one that has severe limitations and one that was designed to teach you to fly.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Hughes500 - would you advocate learning to fly in a Jet Ranger if funds allowed?

Do you think there would be a drama with doing the PPL(H) in the JR, then doing my hour building in the 22??
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