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HeliTorque Forum Index » Instructor Forum

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Heli-Ops
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 8:19 pm    Post subject: Robinson Safety Course Reply with quote

For those of you who have attended would you say the course is worth attending and if so what are the benefits.

There are probably quite a few members here thinking about attending.

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the UK course, run by Richard Mornington-Sanford as a kind of road show, when he visited London Helicopter Centres at Redhill.

I would describe it as invaluable!

It makes you think and question practices you may have fallen into since completing the PPL(H). The accident video footage is uncomfortable to watch, but compelling and necessary. Dick has in-depth knowledge of each R22 / R44 accident, it's history and causes, as well as the engineering of the machines. For me, the course filled in a lot of gaps where things I had learnt during training a few years earlier had been forgotten / misunderstood / maybe even not properly taken in at the time.

An added benefit was the opportunity to meet other Robinson pilots of varying levels of experience - some owners, some CPLs and instructors, most self-fly-hirers like me.

I think to do it straight after the PPL(H) would perhaps be too soon. The information gleaned during training should be more than sufficient to fly safely post-PPL. A couple of years and a good few hours down the line is the time to have the content of this course drummed in, by which time a few bad habits and a little complacency may have slipped in. Difficult to explain, but we all agreed.

I plan to repeat the course in a few years once I have completed the instructor course, as a refresher. Who knows, maybe I will get to go to Torrance. One major advantage of the UK course is that the number are very low - only seven on my course.

Hope this helps,

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its been discussed before here but my (biased ?) opinion is you will never beat the 'proper' factory course in Torrance... not least the value for money aspect especially at the moment with the $ exchange rate.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive followed the safety course twice, First time just after my PPL (9 years ago) and the second time about 2 years ago. Learned a lot the first time and learned a few things the second time. I always pass on what I learned to my students and tell them to go and follow the course.

Every Robinson pilot should do it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

Last edited by Rdriver on Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject: Robinson Safety Course Reply with quote

Rdriver Hi

We at HeliAir run advanced courses for pilots and safety is a paramount issue always
If people want to go to Robinson they will learn stuff from the creator

why are you cynical about it - I just wondered?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the level of training (PPl /Cpl) is good then i don't really see why any factory safety course is needed.


That's assuming, of course, that the PPL or CPL instructor's knowledge is up-to-the-minute current, and that their Chief Pilot's / Examiner's / Whatever's is also. If you think about it, the level of knowledge required to go from 0 - PPL is massive for most of us, and I probably forgot far more than was good for me. I did the UK safety course about four years after gaining my PPL and picked up a huge number of hints and tips. Arguably I should have known them all, or been taught all of them at some point, but that is to assume a perfect memory on my part (I can promise you, it's not!) and a 100% accurate course on the part of the school (it was very good - but I defy any flying school to send away newly-qualified PPLs with absolutely no gaps in their skills or knowledge...).

I seem to remember a saying about the issue of any licence as being a "licence to learn." I wholeheartedly agree. I will give it a couple of years and do the course again - if I pick up just one more valuable tip then it will have been money well spent.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Robinson Safety Course Reply with quote

[quote=

Last edited by Rdriver on Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rationale to justify the course is set out right at the beginning of it. The intention, is obviously to save lives.

We started with looking at a percentage breakdown of Fatal Accidents by "Types of Flying" and my "Primary Causes" BEFORE the safety course was introduced. They are:

Types of Flying
  1. Student Solo (36%)
  2. Dual Instruction (22%)
  3. Business or Charter (14%)
  4. Recreational Flying (14%)
  5. Ferry Flights (14%)
Primary Causes
  1. Loss of Rotor RPM (35%)
  2. Weather (14%)
  3. Collision or FOD (14%)
  4. Fuel Mismanagement (14%)
  5. Aircraft Failure (14%)
  6. Mishandling Controls (8%)


Then a look at AFTER the safety course:

Types of Flying
  1. Recreational Flying (61%)
  2. Business or Charter (20%)
  3. Dual Instruction (10%)
  4. Student Solo (9%)
  5. Ferry Flights (0%)
Primary Causes
  1. Collision or FOD (29%)
  2. Loss of Rotor RPM (19%)
  3. Mishandling Controls (18%)
  4. Weather (16%)
  5. Unknown or Other (13%)
  6. Fuel Mismanagement (3%)
  7. Aircraft Failure (2%)



Now, if you look at the number one killer cause before the course, Loss of Rotor RPM and where it appears afterwards. Given that a fair chunk of the course is about preservation of Rotor RPM, and energy management, I think it safe to say that it plays a significant part - regardless of how good we would like ALL of the world's training schools to be! Looking at it, one might infer too, that instructors on the course are more cautious with their students.

You're right, in that it's not a "must do" course, but I would at least hope that most new/low-time pilots would be interested enough to take it!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..

Last edited by Rdriver on Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair point, Mr. driver, I hadn't thought of it like that.

However, I'm sure accident statistics are available from FAA/NTSB or wherever else - I think Robinson would look very foolish if they don't back them up.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking about this topic, this morning. Rdriver, you seem to be suggesting that you disapprove of Robinson marketing their products?

I took the course, not only because I thought it relevant to me, and I thought I might learn something; but also because it was a chance to meet other similar helicopter pilots, in a social event. And to get an hour of instruction in the helicopter. I don't consider it a waste of money - I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say I found it invaluable, but it was certainly interesting, and I did learn new things from it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..

Last edited by Rdriver on Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might be completely wrong here but isn't the reason the safety course exists because of the FAA - not Robinson?

Just an inkling of a memory so might be way off on that one...
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'M A 120HR R22/R44 PPL BOOKED IN ON THE COURSE FOR 26-29 SEPTEMBER 2005

USED IT AS AN EXCUSE Wink TO FLY AROUND L.A. TWO DAYS BEFORE AND THREE DAYS AFTER WITH ROTORVATION Smile

IT'S SIMPLY THAT LOW WEIGHT AND LOW INERTIA REQUIRES A DISCIPLINED APPROACH TO IT'S OPERATION
ROBINSON INTRODUCED THE COURSE AS A CARROT TO HELP REDUCE INSURANCE COSTS, AND TO RAISE AWARENESS OF CORRECT SAFE OPERATING TECHNIQUES

WILL REPORT BACK AFTER THE COURSE
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