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HeliTorque :: View topic - LH/RH P1 seat
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Flight Dynamics

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James T Lowe
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh? Eh? Confused Question

Who's a flash git?
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PilotWolf
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think the R22 RH P1 came about from the fuel tank being on the LH side.

A certain Robinson pilot who did a lot of the original testing tells of how he ran out of right cyclic after dropping off the FAA inspector who had sat in the RH seat and hence the no solo fromt the left seat rule was formed! I believe the potential embarrasing situation was resolved by allowing the fuel to burn off..

PW
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presumably by flying in circles...?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..can't remember!

PW.

ps whats this q2 in all Weekend Warrior's posts?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:36 am    Post subject: Q2 Reply with quote

Not sure PW, think something happened to the database. Sad

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:57 pm    Post subject: Hughes 269 / Schweizer 300 Reply with quote

The reason that P1 is LH on the H269 is because Hughes said, that only poofs and perverts sit on the right. A reference to fixed wing P1 being on the left.

The new 300CBi is RH though.

Cheers

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.

Last edited by weekend warrior on Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it's all fixed now... hopefully it won't happen again. I am frustrated just now becuase I haven't flown for weeks. Had a stupid cold and cough and I really want to get on with my training but I feel too ill. Sad

WG Sad
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whirlygig;

You say the "new 300CBi is RH P1 though"... RH since when, i.e. how 'new'?

Ours is a year old now but as I think I said, the blue book for the 300 has various layout diags inside and it shows both layouts since the binnacle has to be RH or LH since the vital signs dials have to be nearest the pilot. So it's an early decision in mfr where the P1 sits - not to do with fuel tanks AFAIK since it can have one or two tanks (ours has two). I would have expected that being a US made heli, they would make export (or UK anyway) RH P1 to conform to our familiarity of sitting on the RH to 'drive' plus the foregoing comments about solo nav and the need to change radio freqs by crossing over, stick in LH (weird! - dive dive dive) etc. etc.

I wonder if one can specify the handedness at the order stage - though again referring to the above, one buys from dealers here in the UK and tend to take what they have without much regard for where the pilot sits - you do what the book says and that's it. Time for change? It requires customer pressure of course.. We are the paying people, they (mfrs) should listen to their customers and fulfil or at least listen to requests. Is this logical or fanciful!

FF

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamestlowe wrote:
Huh? Eh? Confused Question

Who's a flash git?


Cap't Blme of course Wink I bet he didn't even have to read the answer - he knew it off the top of his head - word for word correct! (Well he does teach the stuff)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I see!

This thread's very difficult to read now! Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:35 am    Post subject: The good old days Reply with quote

For information and in reference to the original thread. I have been told that the tradition of the PIC being on the right comes from the "old" days when helicopters were still in their infancy and they decided to only have one collective, between the seats, like the throttles in a "plank". Of course, its a lot easier to control the cyclic with the right hand, most people being right-handed, and the captains decided they preferred the right seat and relegated the more difficult left seat to the beginners and those of inferior rank.

Later, dual collectives became the norm and the preference died quietly, but the manufacturers had already decided to construct their machines with the PIC seat on the right and the tradition is still with us. Russian machines have the PIC seat on the left, like the MD500's and now Eurocopter is offering either seat in the EC120 or 130 for the PIC. I prefer the left as long-lining is a lot easier from that side and would love to see most machines having the PIC seat on the left.

Nuff said!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

another reason for the RH/LH P1 position is so manufacturers can claim to build a 3 seat heli. i.e in a H269 LH P1 machine pull out tehe duals insert 'third' seat and presto ! a 3 seat machine, wouldnt get me in the middle though - too cramped for my liking!

also the same for the H369 enstrom etc

for the 269 series it is specified at build and so you can have for exaple a LH or RH P1 position CBi
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes NH I have seen this 3rd seat mentioned in the 269 Blue Book..I think you have to be great friends with your compatriots as it is full in there with 2 up!

I once booked a scenic flight over and around Melbourne for my ex's son and his g/f for his birthday and that was in a 269. It was before I'd ever been in one and I thought it would be cosy but having spent 65 hours in one now, I think it would have been tight.
It is only the LH P1 model that has the capacity for 3 seats due to the collective having to be on the outside (relatively speaking). I still maintain unless exceptional circs or specific orders (for the 269 anyway) that in the UK the config ought to be as per the road driver layout. There is another spanner in the works to this discussion - in particular relating to the 269 and that is fuel tanks. It can be supplied with just one and I think that goes on the RH standing at the tail looking fwd so the Pilot has to be LH. Ours has 2 tanks to give us decent range.

I can see the sense in LH P1 due to the lever in any Heli as there is always the risk of pax doing something to a mid mounted one and it removes that risk in one fell swoop. In the R22, there is a decent distance between the Pilot and pax and there is also that centre console.

FF

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flying Foxy wrote:
I can see the sense in LH P1 due to the lever in any Heli as there is always the risk of pax doing something to a mid mounted one and it removes that risk in one fell swoop. In the R22, there is a decent distance between the Pilot and pax and there is also that centre console.


Just to be devil's advocate here - realistically, how risky is that?

In the cruise, if the lever goes down momentarily (i.e. for the moment it take you to notice it, get your hand on it, and yank it back up) you descend a few feet, and you'll be yawing about a bit too. If it goes up, again yaw, and you might momentarily break a clearance, if you're flying that close to it. For the Robinsons, depending on how much it moves, you'll perhaps pull a bit too much power for a moment - remember, there's always the 5 minute t.o. power to buffer anyway. (Do turbines have similar buffers/power maximums?)

Hovering? Well, that's the pilot's own stupid fault - where was the hand if it wasn't on the lever!? Wink
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