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HeliTorque Forum Index » Student Pilots & Hour Builders

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Flying Foxy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Afterburner wrote [before Christmas]:
Quote:
As for accelerating and decelerating: the operations are opposite, and therefore so are control inputs. Cyclic forward, collective up. Cyclic back, collective down.


This is interesting. I was having trouble with the correlation of cyclic/collective and had one really awful lesson where I just couldn't get anything right on climbing/descending etc - my instructor said it was a backwards lesson but we could look forward to improvement next time (he had great confidence in me!). So when I spent time in and around the office, I'd seen the pilots doing gesticulations when talking to each other and suddenly it made SO much sense! They would always talk about sorties using hand motions and the most obvious one was always the pushing the RH forward and raising the LH, exactly as AB describes. You see this with ALL [rotary] pilots. SO next time I flew I remembered this and did what they were doing and wahey - all fell into place. No substitute for observation at any level eh?

FF

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flying Foxy wrote:
- my instructor said it was a backwards lesson but we could look forward to improvement next time (he had great confidence in me!).


Yes, there is always some regression in learning during training and also when a pilot does not take the stick for long periods. As your instructor has said, "a backwards lesson". We all have had them. Remember that Instructors were also students!

Flying copters does take a bit of dexterity and concentration, but as time progresses, becomes natural.

Good luck.

Helicopter
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Dark007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Thanks for the tips.

Had my fifth lesson now. Accels/decels/ascents/descents I can do reasonably now - just more practice required.

Have done more hovering which has improved now to be fairly stable although I do occassionally lose it because of over correction with the pedals.

My FI got me doing spot turns which I am having more trouble on. I forgot to take account of the wind with the cyclic but mainly am turning too fast because I am a bit clunky with the pedals still.

We ended the lesson on a more successful note with a couple of takeoffs which ended up in stable hovers only a foot above ground. Looking forward to doing them again.

Next lesson more spot turns I think.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dark007 wrote:
Thanks for the tips.

Your welcome. We here in the forum treat each other like family. (including our little fun spats.)Laughing

Quote:
Next lesson more spot turns I think.

Ah, the fun begins. May I offer this advice. Be very gentle on the pedals or you will spin like a top. BE AWARE OF THE WIND DIRECTION, so you don't end up in Vortex Ring State in a right pedal turn.
Unless you really need to turn right, I would go all the way around in strong left winds in a hover.

Don't jab the pedals, but rather push enough to start and stop the turn.

More is not always better. Laughing

Have fun.

Got to go. Helicopter
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really understand that one. How does the tail rotor end up in a vortex ring state if turning to the right?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's quite a bit about it on this thread.

http://www.helitorque.com/portal/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2902&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=vortex
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting read. I understand why my FI didn't start me off on spot turns to the right.

Quote:
Be very gentle on the pedals or you will spin like a top.


I found when hovering in wind it takes quite a bit of left pedal to get it going when trying to turn to the left. I suppose as it turned I should've added slightly more right pedal even before I got to the 180 deg point where the wind would hit on the other side of the tail. Does that make sense?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes sense to me! I had it described to me that when doing a lefthand turn the left pedal acts like an accelator and the right like a brake. So you apply more brake to slow the turn before the wind catches your tail.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jen wrote:
the left pedal acts like an accelator and the right like a brake.


That just sounds so backwards!!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James T Lowe wrote:
Jen wrote:
the left pedal acts like an accelerator and the right like a brake.


That just sounds so backwards!!


Especially if your flying from the right side. Laughing

And how about these offered by some instructors.....

"More left", or "Less right"! Talk about confusing. Two sets of instructions for the same thing. No wonder students go spinning around in a hover.


Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James T Lowe wrote:
Jen wrote:
the left pedal acts like an accelerator and the right like a brake.


That just sounds so backwards!!


Especially if your flying from the right side. Laughing

And how about these offered by some instructors.....

"More left", or "Less right"! Talk about confusing. Two sets of instructions for the same thing. No wonder students go spinning around in a hover.


Laughing Laughing
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Dark007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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the left pedal acts like an accelerator and the right like a brake.


I like that. I'll think about that when I use the pedals for spot turns. My FI also suggested pressing both feet hard against the pedals so while one is being pushed, the other one is regulating how much it is being pushed.

Still that's all very well me saying that now. Once I'm in the seat I'm sure all that'll go out of the window.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dark007 wrote:
Quote:
the left pedal acts like an accelerator and the right like a brake.


I like that. I'll think about that when I use the pedals for spot turns. My FI also suggested pressing both feet hard against the pedals so while one is being pushed, the other one is regulating how much it is being pushed.

Still that's all very well me saying that now. Once I'm in the seat I'm sure all that'll go out of the window.



Not sure 'pushing hard' is a good idea. You need a light touch! I found my legs used to almost lock up in the hover and get very tense - and still do if it's windy Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fendersim wrote:
Not sure 'pushing hard' is a good idea. You need a light touch!


Very true indeed! Pushing hard not only tires you out, but you can't get a good feel for what the copter wants to do.

Smooth even pressure is the best way. Most of the time in flight, my feet are only resting on the pedals (if she is in trim).

AB
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