Welcome Guest
HeliTorque
  
User Control Panel

Security Code: : Security Code
Type Security Code Here: :
 
Register Here
Lost Password?

Online Stats:
Visitors: 207
Members: 0
Total: 207

Membership:
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Registering: 0
Members: 6662
Latest: chrisw

Most Ever Online
Visitors: 546
Members: 0
Total: 546


HeliTorque :: View topic - UK Copte Pilot Foils Burglary!
Forum FAQ
Forum FAQ
Search
Search
Memberlist
Memberlist
Usergroups
Usergroups
Profile
Profile
Contact Manager
Contact Manager
Log in
Log in
Log in to check your private messages
Log in to check your private messages
HeliTorque Forum Index » Announcements & Comments

Post new topic   Reply to topic All times are GMT
UK Copte Pilot Foils Burglary!
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
afterburner
H Addict
H Addict


Offline
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 1059
Location: New York


usa.gif

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject: UK Copte Pilot Foils Burglary! Reply with quote

This is great!~

http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2009/090527burg.html?WT.mc_id=090529epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan

AB
_________________
"A Copter Pilot's Life has it's... ups and downs"
Bell 47-206, Schweizer 300/500, Citation 525
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WhirlyGuy
Administrator
Administrator


Offline
Joined: Jul 17, 2004
Posts: 742
Location: United Kingdom | Birmingham


uk.gif

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm,

Hovering for 20 minutes at 2000ft, phoning people on a mobile whilst flying, keeping watch on a vehicle on the ground whilst flying over a congested area without another pair of eyes acting as the lookout. Need I go on?

Not only that but what a flipping expensive way to catch a thief for what was stolen!!

I think the main thing here though is the lesson to be learned from the actual flying. Not too sure how legal or more importantly safe and responsible all that was!!

WhirlyGuy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Skype Name
James T Lowe
Moderator
Moderator


Offline
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 2575
Location: Leicester


uk.gif

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Mark, for goodness sake!

WhirlyGuy wrote:
Hovering for 20 minutes at 2000ft,


Problem with that is, what, precisely? And I don't think he did. He "hovered" for 20 mins over a wood. And was 2000ft over Fakenham. (I also suspect "hovered" is a bit of artistic licence. That's what helis do, so media report them as doing that. I doubt he was at 0 kts for 20 minutes. In any case, I suspect one-up in an A119 could deal with it easily.)

WhirlyGuy wrote:
phoning people on a mobile whilst flying,


He didn't. It was a satellite phone.* And hardly a problem if the helicopter is equipped with it.
* if you believe the Mail

WhirlyGuy wrote:
keeping watch on a vehicle on the ground whilst flying over a congested area without another pair of eyes acting as the lookout. Need I go on?


The other pair of eyes might have been a Radar Information Service*, perhaps? And how does keeping a good lookout differ from over a congested area to not? It's easy enough to more or less track a vehicle from the air - you don't exactly have to constantly watch it. Try it sometime. The congested area was Fakenham - it's not that big an area, maybe a couple of miles across?

*Or whatever the modern day equivalent is!

WhirlyGuy wrote:
Not only that but what a flipping expensive way to catch a thief for what was stolen!!


Totally irrelevant, and entirely his choice. His heli. His money. His stuff being nicked. It's a bloody shame the criminal just got a conditional discharge.

WhirlyGuy wrote:
I think the main thing here though is the lesson to be learned from the actual flying. Not too sure how legal or more importantly safe and responsible all that was!!


Perfectly legal. Perfectly safe. And perfectly responsible.

May I just point out, that the police pilots engage in not dissimilar flying all the time.


Oh, and the media reporting has been rather comical, too - ask the Express, they seem to think that an A119 is similar to a Hughes 500. The Mail reckon an A119 has 11 seats, and burns 1000 fuel an hour. I don't know a lot about A119s, but I know they're single engine turbines, and I seriously doubt they burn over 200 gallons of fuel in that hour. I should think 7 seats is more realistic too. And looks like an A109 with skids.

And the Telegraph are just annoyed that it was paid for on expenses... Wink Wink (Ah! That's why it's reported to have cost 2500..... tax purposes)

I tell you what, top marks to the bloke - I'm very envious that I don't have a heli in my back yard. As for catching the criminals in the act - what a stroke of luck!
_________________
J.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
WhirlyGuy
Administrator
Administrator


Offline
Joined: Jul 17, 2004
Posts: 742
Location: United Kingdom | Birmingham


uk.gif

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James T Lowe wrote:
Oh Mark, for goodness sake!
WhirlyGuy wrote:
Hovering for 20 minutes at 2000ft,


Problem with that is, what, precisely? And I don't think he did. He "hovered" for 20 mins over a wood. And was 2000ft over Fakenham. (I also suspect "hovered" is a bit of artistic licence. That's what helis do, so media report them as doing that. I doubt he was at 0 kts for 20 minutes. In any case, I suspect one-up in an A119 could deal with it easily.)


Okay sorry mis-read that part about the wood. Still he was keeping a watch out for a car and not other aircraft which I personally (and just my thoughts - you can argue with them if you like) think is a little dangerous.


James T Lowe wrote:

WhirlyGuy wrote:
phoning people on a mobile whilst flying,


He didn't. It was a satellite phone.* And hardly a problem if the helicopter is equipped with it.
* if you believe the Mail


Not too sure how you know it was a satellite phone. Admitted those helicopters may well have them fitted but that's not to say he used it. Also are you supposed to use even a satellite phone whilst in flight?

I see that akin to talking / texting whilst driving. An absolutely inexcusable exercise which gets people killed. Just not worth it no matter what!!


James T Lowe wrote:

WhirlyGuy wrote:
keeping watch on a vehicle on the ground whilst flying over a congested area without another pair of eyes acting as the lookout. Need I go on?


The other pair of eyes might have been a Radar Information Service*, perhaps?


I meant that he should be maintaining a lookout for other aircraft, not attempting to do what is something that police pilots train for many many hours to do. In my eyes he was lucky, no matter what the size of the area he was flying in.


James T Lowe wrote:

And how does keeping a good lookout differ from over a congested area to not? It's easy enough to more or less track a vehicle from the air - you don't exactly have to constantly watch it. Try it sometime.


I'd rather not thanks Wink I still think this is something you should not be doing. Flying the aircraft should be the first responsibility of any pilot and maintaining a good lookout. Leave the following to another person to do.



James T Lowe wrote:

WhirlyGuy wrote:
Not only that but what a flipping expensive way to catch a thief for what was stolen!!


Totally irrelevant, and entirely his choice. His heli. His money. His stuff being nicked. It's a bloody shame the criminal just got a conditional discharge.


Yep I know it's his choice but for the amount of things nicked just seems a bit overkill to me. Did the guy not have a car then and could he not have took the guys number plate and called the police and let them do what they are trained to do instead of muscling in?


James T Lowe wrote:

WhirlyGuy wrote:
I think the main thing here though is the lesson to be learned from the actual flying. Not too sure how legal or more importantly safe and responsible all that was!!


Perfectly legal. Perfectly safe. And perfectly responsible.


Well, we'll just have to beg to differ on that one Wink


James T Lowe wrote:

May I just point out, that the police pilots engage in not dissimilar flying all the time.


With a trained observer or two yes but not on their own.

WhirlyGuy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Skype Name
James T Lowe
Moderator
Moderator


Offline
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 2575
Location: Leicester


uk.gif

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WhirlyGuy wrote:
Not too sure how you know it was a satellite phone.

Read the Mail article, linked from my earlier post. Like I said, depends if you believe them...

WhirlyGuy wrote:
I see that akin to talking / texting whilst driving. An absolutely inexcusable exercise which gets people killed. Just not worth it no matter what!!


We could debate this a bit - I probably agree with you, in that talking to someone not in the car, via a telephone line, is quite distracting. However, that's not outlawed. Quite where do you draw the line on it - what about talking to a passenger next to you?

Just as another thought I had on this, maybe it was an air/ground radio. Remember, these are tabloid newspaper reports... unless you're suggesting that talking to ATC is dangerous? No, thought not.

WhirlyGuy wrote:
II meant that he should be maintaining a lookout for other aircraft, not attempting to do what is something that police pilots train for many many hours to do.


I know nothing of this guys training. He could be ex-mil! Do you know?

WhirlyGuy wrote:
Flying the aircraft should be the first responsibility of any pilot and maintaining a good lookout. Leave the following to another person to do.


Yup, granted. But on a nice day, like today, the flying is easy - to an experienced pilot, second nature. Like driving a car. Spare capacity to follow something on the ground. Okay - have you ever followed a line feature? i.e. A ROAD?!?

WhirlyGuy wrote:
Did the guy not have a car then and could he not have took the guys number plate and called the police and let them do what they are trained to do instead of muscling in?


Probably. Are you suggesting that our helicopter flying friend take on the role of a pursuit police driver then? And chase the criminal all over the Norfolk countryside. And right through the middle of a peaceful little town? No.

In any case - he was lifting from his back yard in the heli. As he lifted, he spotted the activity. And, as I read it, took the opportunity, in the vehicle he was currently in.


WhirlyGuy wrote:
Well, we'll just have to beg to differ on that one Wink


Seems that way.


WhirlyGuy wrote:
With a trained observer or two yes but not on their own.


Well thank God our heli friend wasn't operating the video recorders at the same time then. Or the skyshout.

What I think you're basically getting to, is you think the pilot's workload would have been too much?
_________________
J.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
WhirlyGuy
Administrator
Administrator


Offline
Joined: Jul 17, 2004
Posts: 742
Location: United Kingdom | Birmingham


uk.gif

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking this might start turning into a rather heated debate this one Wink

James T Lowe wrote:
WhirlyGuy wrote:
Not too sure how you know it was a satellite phone.

Read the Mail article, linked from my earlier post. Like I said, depends if you believe them...


Ah right, sorry missed the link the first time round as it was at the bottom of the post, not where you had mentioned about the phone Wink




James T Lowe wrote:

WhirlyGuy wrote:
I see that akin to talking / texting whilst driving. An absolutely inexcusable exercise which gets people killed. Just not worth it no matter what!!


We could debate this a bit - I probably agree with you, in that talking to someone not in the car, via a telephone line, is quite distracting. However, that's not outlawed. Quite where do you draw the line on it - what about talking to a passenger next to you?


Talking to someone in a cockpit / car next to you is a completely different thing to talking to someone on a phone, handsfree or not. Talking to a person who is there with you is completely different to talking over a communications device the latter of which I see as being just more dangerous due to many many different reasons.


James T Lowe wrote:

Just as another thought I had on this, maybe it was an air/ground radio. Remember, these are tabloid newspaper reports... unless you're suggesting that talking to ATC is dangerous? No, thought not.


Not too sure what I said that brought up ATC so a bit confused on this line of questioning.



James T Lowe wrote:

WhirlyGuy wrote:
II meant that he should be maintaining a lookout for other aircraft, not attempting to do what is something that police pilots train for many many hours to do.


I know nothing of this guys training. He could be ex-mil! Do you know?


Nope I don't know but I don't really care if he has 20,000 hours even. It's not his job to be doing this it should be left to the professionals and if anything did happen I'm pretty sure no insurer in the land is going to cover him and he might even find himself in breach of a few laws.


James T Lowe wrote:

WhirlyGuy wrote:
Flying the aircraft should be the first responsibility of any pilot and maintaining a good lookout. Leave the following to another person to do.


Yup, granted. But on a nice day, like today, the flying is easy - to an experienced pilot, second nature. Like driving a car. Spare capacity to follow something on the ground. Okay - have you ever followed a line feature? i.e. A ROAD?!?


Yep but not when the road is trying to lose me! A road or land feature is a LOT LOT larger than a car and doesn't generally move Wink

I say leave that to the professionals with the correct equipment to perform that sort of exercise safely. Probably just me getting old and ratchety but that's the way I see it I'm afraid.



James T Lowe wrote:

WhirlyGuy wrote:
Did the guy not have a car then and could he not have took the guys number plate and called the police and let them do what they are trained to do instead of muscling in?


Probably. Are you suggesting that our helicopter flying friend take on the role of a pursuit police driver then? And chase the criminal all over the Norfolk countryside. And right through the middle of a peaceful little town? No.


That's not was I was meaning, no. He could have just got the number plate of the car and then reported it to the Police, that's what I meant.

James T Lowe wrote:

In any case - he was lifting from his back yard in the heli. As he lifted, he spotted the activity. And, as I read it, took the opportunity, in the vehicle he was currently in.


Again from the report I read I didn't realise that he was already lifting. I still think that he should have contacted the Police though.

James T Lowe wrote:

WhirlyGuy wrote:
With a trained observer or two yes but not on their own.


Well thank God our heli friend wasn't operating the video recorders at the same time then. Or the skyshout.

What I think you're basically getting to, is you think the pilot's workload would have been too much?


Yes absolutely or else why exactly do they have trained observers in Police helis if the pilot could do it all on their own? I think that pretty much proves a point personally. Smile

WhirlyGuy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Skype Name
James T Lowe
Moderator
Moderator


Offline
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 2575
Location: Leicester


uk.gif

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't be bothered to requote.

Each report I've read says he spotted the incident as he was lifting.

ATC - you're talking to someone on a radiotelephone. Not in the car/cockpit.

Number plate - suspect heli was too far away, that's why ground reinforcements were summoned.


And that's it. I'm not replying anymore.. Smile We'll agree to disagree. We do not know, and it's impossible to infer the full story.
_________________
J.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
WhirlyGuy
Administrator
Administrator


Offline
Joined: Jul 17, 2004
Posts: 742
Location: United Kingdom | Birmingham


uk.gif

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James T Lowe wrote:
ATC - you're talking to someone on a radiotelephone. Not in the car/cockpit.


Well this is a legal requirement and really you should be keeping things brief as much as you can. Talking on a telephone is NOT keeping things brief, plus you have to dial first too Smile

James T Lowe wrote:

Number plate - suspect heli was too far away, that's why ground reinforcements were summoned.


You make it sound like he does this as a day job Wink


James T Lowe wrote:
And that's it. I'm not replying anymore.. Smile


Me too Smile

James T Lowe wrote:
We'll agree to disagree.


Well at least we can agree on one thing Wink

James T Lowe wrote:
We do not know, and it's impossible to infer the full story.


Totally agree with that but even if he were a massively skilled pilot and everything else I still think it's not his place to be doing that kind of thing. Perhaps that's just me though? Anyone else any thoughts? Wink

WhirlyGuy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Skype Name
afterburner
H Addict
H Addict


Offline
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 1059
Location: New York


usa.gif

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject: Announcements Reply with quote

OH MY GOODNESS!

WHAT THE HECK DID I START?

DOWN BOYS.....DOWN !!!

It was only a news article, not an invitation to put on the gloves. Laughing

Gotta go now....
Helicopter
_________________
"A Copter Pilot's Life has it's... ups and downs"
Bell 47-206, Schweizer 300/500, Citation 525
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
3Blades
Starting to 'Torque
Starting to 'Torque


Offline
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 20
Location: UK


uk.gif

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Anyone else any thoughts?


Yeah, ok seeing as you asked.. I don't see the problem in anything he did. I completely understand why he didn't just "report the vehicle number plate to the police" as the way things seem to be now, they would probably just "take a report " or something similar. Kiss your property goodbye in other words..

If It was my property getting burgled and I had the helicopter, I would definately be in the air ASAP. As to following a vehicle from the air, it's not that difficult, for any reasonably EXPERIENCED pilot in a mainly rural area (if not near any major airspace).

I once dropped off my boss at his friends house, and he spoke to the man who was sitting in his car, came back 30 seconds later and said "we are going to look at a site, follow us, and you can land in the field beside us when we park up". I imediately thought here we go, this will be interesting, but after 10 minutes of playing follow the black BMW, they park up beside a field and in I go, no big problem..

As to the sat phone, I don't what type he had, but I have done some research on sat phones for helicopters, and you can have it wired directly into the intercom, so it can be just a matter of push the button and talk through your headset as normal. No big deal really when you consider that at any big event like Silverstone etc, you can easliy be working 2 or 3 frquencies at once. In normal day to day flying I work two at once most of the time.

Low flying, well 2000 feet above a forest sounds ok to me, no issue there really? Just my view on it, and we are all entitled to our opinion, however I wasn't there on the day, Im only going on the news reports, and I certainly wouldnt advise your average 100 hr PPL to go out and do what he did...

What does everyone else think?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WhirlyGuy
Administrator
Administrator


Offline
Joined: Jul 17, 2004
Posts: 742
Location: United Kingdom | Birmingham


uk.gif

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the only other thing that got me worried on it too is the fact that the guy knew he was being followed and was trying to evade being followed which if anyone has watched those Police programmes you will know that people will tend to do anything to get away.

This in my mind was a very dangerous thing to do. The pilot very well could have put people on the ground in danger, perhaps not by his actual flying but by the fact that the idiot on the ground was trying to get away and so quite possibly could have been driving like a loon!

Anyway perhaps I'm just getting old or something?

WhirlyGuy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Skype Name
haggishunter
H Addict
H Addict


Offline
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 888
Location: Stavanger, Norway


uk.gif

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know of a onshore charter pilot that has not used a mobile whilst flying.

Hovering for 20mins... blimedy we better ban the police machine from flying.

Newspapers arefull of shite, believe what you want.

HH
_________________
ATPL(H) IR(H): SK92, AS355, EC120, R22/44

"When the tough gets going, the tough eat haggis!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
3Blades
Starting to 'Torque
Starting to 'Torque


Offline
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 20
Location: UK


uk.gif

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well the only other thing that got me worried on it too is the fact that the guy knew he was being followed and was trying to evade being followed which if anyone has watched those Police programmes you will know that people will tend to do anything to get away.


This is certainly a possibility, and one aspect which the pilot could maybe have been blamed for if someone had been injured on the ground..
I wonder though if he did have a sat phone and was able to call friends and relatives to help in the pursuit, he must have had some specfic reason why he didn't call the police too... Strange Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    HeliTorque Forum Index » Announcements & Comments All times are GMT

 
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Sponsors


Billund Air Center

Visit HeliTorque!