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HeliTorque :: View topic - She was built to fly
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Anything Goes!

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She was built to fly
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ORC
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:04 am    Post subject: She was built to fly Reply with quote

Very Happy Heres a news story that made me smile, the accidental take off of one of the two remaining servicable victor bombers..................clean underwear required

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/09/09/hero-pilot-lands-runaway-jet-in-accidental-take-off-115875-21658935/

I found this video I can only assume its the same one


Watch this Video in a New Window

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


Watch this Video in a New Window

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Hero Pilot" - Yeah whatever, shoudln't have let it get off the ground in the first place! Still.... a beautiful aircraft in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'd like to know is how come someone who doesn't have a valid pilots license was allowed to be behind the controls?

Admitted yes the plane obviously wasn't meant to take off but the fact remains that it could do and did do!

How come a plane that has the ability to take off is able to be piloted by someone without a valid license?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WG

From the ANO point of view you only need a pilot at the controls if it is in flight, if they never meant to they didn't need one.

Obviously after they were airborne that all changed, it seems from news reports (how reliable I don't know) that the guy in the co-pilots seat was supposed to close the throttles and he didn't leaving the newly appointed Smile captain with perhaps few options.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya,

veeany wrote:
WG

From the ANO point of view you only need a pilot at the controls if it is in flight, if they never meant to they didn't need one.


Still all seems a little odd to me though. It's not like you can swap a pilot in with a license if it suddenly starts to take off! Wink Very Happy Wink

Seems to me like the rules should be changed so that if there's any possibility (even a slim one) for the aircraft to take off then there should be someone in it with a license.

Just think what would have happened had it all gone horribly wrong. Apart from the legal mess that would have happened anyway then if it got out (and it would) that the pilot didn't even have a license then I would dread to think what that would have meant for the C.A.A.


veeany wrote:
Obviously after they were airborne that all changed, it seems from news reports (how reliable I don't know) that the guy in the co-pilots seat was supposed to close the throttles and he didn't leaving the newly appointed Smile captain with perhaps few options.


Yep sounds like the co-pilot shouldn't be allowed back in again if you ask me Wink

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, if the piece of paper says "license", it probably isn't valid.... </pedant> Wink

This was covered on BBC's East Midlands Today, last night, as the incident was just down the road, at Bruntingthorpe.

As veeany said, it was only supposed to be a high speed taxi run. However, the "co-pilot" "froze" at a critical point, and did not throttle back engines. The report last night, suggested that the CAA recognise this kind of "freezing" at times of high stress, and therefore took no further action.

BBC online have a report, here

If the regulatory bodies start preventing non-pilots from controlling aircraft during ground taxi runs, then engineering starts to become very expensive - the engineers would need pilot licences, or you have licensed pilots having to perform ground runs, when they could be earning money actually flying the aircraft, in the air.
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Last edited by James T Lowe on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James T Lowe wrote:
If the regulatory bodies start preventing non-ilots from controlling aircraft during ground taxi runs, then engineering starts to become very expensive - the engineers would need pilot licences, or you have licensed pilots having to perform ground runs, when they could be earning money actually flying the aircraft, in the air.


Hmm I didn't think that was allowed is it?

I thought (could be different for Helicopters though?) that you had to have a licensed pilot in the aircraft for ground tests and the like?

Like I say probably different for Helicopters as they are off the ground but still I think it a bit dangerous when the craft has the possibility of take-off. Plus the added side that engineers would need to have a fair knowledge of flight or the thing is going to take off anyway! Wink

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WG

The ANO says about helicopters and pilots in article 50

(5) An operator shall not permit a helicopter rotor to be turned under power for the purpose of making a flight unless there is a person at the controls entitled in accordance with article 26 of this Order to act as pilot-in-command of the helicopter.

Article 26 is the one that is entitled Members of flight crew requirement for licence
and without copying it in its entirety, it allows you to to compy with 5(5) by virtue of being a licence holder, being taught by an FI or being solo and complying with the instructions of an FI (this is a hugely summarised version of it).

So non pilot engineers can turn rotors (and it would seem ground taxi helicopters) if they don't intend to go flying.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The P1 in the victor had not held a licence for some 28 years, however was one of the last rated Victor pilots, with that sort of experience I would sit in the P2 seat with him anytime !!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WhirlyGuy wrote:
Plus the added side that engineers would need to have a fair knowledge of flight or the thing is going to take off anyway! Wink


Even if the engineers are not licensed pilots, one would hope that they at least have a good appreciation of the aircraft's systems, and how it flies....


And back to the Victor case, as Hughesy said, the chap sat in the P1 seat was a retired RAF Group Captain, and used to fly the plane. In the BBC report, he said it was an instinct. Yes, with his experience, I might well imagine it was...! Good job, I say.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought. Not being a plank pilot but having a small interest in things that fly, is there not some kind of "Flap settings" involved which alter the trailing edge of the wing which having implications on lift no matter how much thrust is applied............. However I do understand how the gentleman in P2 seat froze, I have froze myself while trying a little hovering and pedal control about 10ft of the ground we were going backwards and I just froze causing my instructor to look at me twice before easing the collective forward. Shocked
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James T Lowe wrote:
WhirlyGuy wrote:
Plus the added side that engineers would need to have a fair knowledge of flight or the thing is going to take off anyway! Wink


Even if the engineers are not licensed pilots, one would hope that they at least have a good appreciation of the aircraft's systems, and how it flies....


And back to the Victor case, as Hughesy said, the chap sat in the P1 seat was a retired RAF Group Captain, and used to fly the plane. In the BBC report, he said it was an instinct. Yes, with his experience, I might well imagine it was...! Good job, I say.


Well it looks like I'm outnumbered here Wink

It's just that my point of view is that I have a good appreciation of the NASA shuttles but doesn't mean that I'm qualified to sit in one and fly it if it decided to take off Wink

I was also thinking from a legal point of view too. Seems like things are obviously very very different in the aviation world though as you wouldn't have someone driving a car without a license and then causing a problem and getting away with it.

Oh well, just me I suppose. I'm off out now to go and flyan SR-17 around the town a bit Wink

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