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HeliTorque :: View topic - Should PPLs be taught to fly on instruments?
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Should PPLs be taught to fly on instruments? Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
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Should PPL(H) candidates be taught instrument flying?
no - it inspires over-confidence
 15%  [ 5 ]
yes - it is a useful familiarisation that could save lives
 51%  [ 17 ]
an hour or so as a familiarisation only
 33%  [ 11 ]
Voted : 23
Total Votes : 33
This poll does not expire

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'Torquing Regularly
'Torquing Regularly

Joined: Jan 28, 2009
Posts: 55
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

highonsnow wrote:
Hi flingingwings,

I think if I somehow, inadvertently (due to lack of experience) ended up in an IMC situation, I'd like to think that I know how to keep the spinning side upright and skids low..


Your comment beautifully illustrates the point and the danger.............ask your instructor to demonstrate recovery from unusual positions in IF, and you will be amazed that your normal senses cannot accurately identify your attitude.

The author Jeremy Pratt quotes a study some years ago with qualified pilots who either did not have an IR or were not current, being taken into IMC.........they all lost control within 3 minutes!

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H Addict
H Addict

Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 280


PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are 'we' struggling to find 'inadvertent IMC' situations?????

I only ask as I have a dislike of the term, as it implies IMC creeps up and 'Bang' suddenly its got you. Merely curious in that if we could get pilots to avoid the times when they stand a real risk of going IMC, then QED you wouldn't need 5 hrs of Sim IF.

Fairly certain that pre JAA, the UK PPL had no Sim IF requirement. On that basis any views/thoughts on why it was introduced?

Purely for discussion

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H Addict
H Addict

Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Posts: 741
Location: solihull


PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading this i realise i trained at a really good school. Helicentre at Coventry, under many instructors (a good and bad thing - more about that another day perhaps).

You, on your PPL, cover confined areas and sloping ground and approaches to a farmers field to the power recovery (not actually landing as, as FW pointed out, this is not allowed) This should be training and testing you to make precautionary landings, anywhere. (otherwise why fly helicopters?)

Your MET exam tests recognition of clouds and weather patterns giving you enough knowledge to look ahead and make an informed decision, regardless of what the TAFs told you (we've all had days where the window doesn't match the report)

My Instructors taught me how to use all the available aids in the helicopter and the limitations that apply to me.
Am i trained to fly on instruments, NO, Do i know what they are for, Yes...with THIS understanding i do my best to NEVER enter into a situation where i may be called to use them.

In my five hours (in foggles) we covered S+L, 180 turn, unusual attitudes, failed instrument(sim static freeze, pitot freeze, incorrect reading) and target heading/height changes. (sim radio directions)

I've written before of my one experience in cloud(white out - Don't recommend it). Planning said our route was clear. We were over water, so no field to wait in.
My training allowed me to remain calm and controlled, making assessments and not assumptions. Without it - who knows what reaction you could see...

A highlighted point in the previous posts seems to be the lack or gap in some teaching.
Not recognising weather, Not being proficient enough to wait in a field, Not enough sim-scenarios during hood-time. Not understanding that clouds kill.

My instructors made it very clear that getting into cloud is an easy way to find out the excess on the insurance policy - if you survive. Idea

If it moves i want a go
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Starting to 'Torque
Starting to 'Torque

Joined: Jun 30, 2009
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UK PPLH is 45hrs?
5Hrs of this 45hrs is intrument fam training?

NZ PPLH is 50hrs
Instrument fam is done as an additional prior to night training.

Both countrys get full range of weather conditions

My question is do you not think the 5hrs a UK PPL spends under the hood would be better spent (at that stage) on up grading basic handling?

When your total flight time is around the 40-50hrs mark 5 hrs lost or gained makes a huge difference.

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