Or is it that they don't trust the people that operate their helos?
I think that's the whole point - eliminating pilot error! A core use of R22s is as a training aircraft - am I wrong in thinking it's the most popular training helicopter? Once those pilots have gained a licence, I'm guessing that a lot continue to fly R22 - I do! Therefore, you have a lot of low time, inexperienced pilots, operating a type of aircraft (not just Robinson) where one false move or one poor decision could have you descending at terminal velocity! (And isn't that why we just love them!!)
May I ask a question, Rdriver? Do you read accident reports - are you aware of causes of each accident? I strongly suspect you do! Armed with that information, I can see why the safety course might not be worth it for you. I doubt every pilot does take time to look at the reports - therefore the safety course will fill in these gaps. _________________ J.
Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Posts: 1003 Location: EGSY (Sheffield) Once a city with an airport :-(
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:50 am Post subject:
Purely as an observation; having read various reports on Heli types, the R22 is often called the most popular training heli but it wasn't designed as that - its niche is as a light, piston-engined 2-person heli for transiting about to avoid traffic (car type) and it's relatively inexpensive to own too.
The "built for the purpose of training" heli, is the Schweizer 300 (269) although it is slightly more expensive to run, it has a fully articulated 3-blade head which keeps inertia and is very stable, against the rigid 2-blade of the R22 which is often referred to as 'twitchy'. I did my first 12 hours on an R22 in the early 90's then began again in earnest on the Schweizer in Sept 03 and I feel the 300 is a very good machine to fly. As a trainer.
Sure the R22 is good too, many people learn on it but the original idea was not as a trainer.
Not out to create 'platform wars' but as I said at the start, an observation based on reading.
Joined: May 12, 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject:
At $350 (or what ever they charge now) it is a fantastic course. I was an instructor at a very large flight school when i took it, picking up a rebuild, and have recommended it to all R22 and 44 owners and instructors I've met since. Have taken, and given, a number of factory courses, I'd have to say that you just can't beat going to the "source" for the best information, and that at $350 for a 2.5 day ground school, and up to 1.5 hrs flying, you can't beat it!
Joined: Jul 30, 2005 Posts: 9 Location: Vancouver Island
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:15 am Post subject:
I took the course in 96. It was a good introduction to the R22 for me as most of my limited experience at the time was in 300's and enstroms. Learned a lot of good information specific to all helicopter types, large or small. It was great to see the production facility and all the little robbies sitting in various stages of completion.
The course was primarily intended to better educate the US general flying population. A lot of people who were (are) buying these machines are higher time fixed wing pilots with their licence of 30 or so hours received from someone with around 200 hours total time. Nothing against any of those folks, but there was definately a need to bolster the information out there with the facts from the manufacturer and the test pilots that bent them for certification.
Joined: Jul 20, 2004 Posts: 3702 Location: Birmingham, UK
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject:
Do they run these courses throughout the year, or are they at certain times? Would be interested to do this course sometime - probably not until next year though, as I am up to my eyeballs in CPL(H) work!
Joined: Jan 05, 2006 Posts: 12 Location: Central America
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject:
Courses run all year, but you need to book way ahead.
I recommend you look for a course presented by Tim Tucker (not that the others are no good, but I attended 2 of Tim's courses - If you don't get the message from Tim you never will get it!)
I understand he does courses around the world.
a) A PPL (any PPL) is not getting half the message across - as a matter one basic requirement for course attendance is that you have at least a PPL.
b) It is not that Robinson requires the course because it is so dangerous - it isn't. It's that every other company SHOULD have them too!! Even if you don't drive a R, it still gives you an immense amount of info on helos in general.
c) Statistics (whichever) make the R not only the safest helo in its class but the safest single-piston aircraft at all, too....
d) R-22 might not have been designed as a trainer, but in my experience, as a 0-hr student it doesn't matter in what you start - it is all strange to you anyway.
What does matter though is, if you can fly the R-22 ( with all that low/no inertia...) you can fly pretty much anything (checkouts required nevertheless, please!!)
e) R helicopters are perfectly safe if flown within the ops-limits - see your POH, and then some.....
What is the major problem is GOOD pilot training!!
If your instructor never learned to fly how are you going to!
I did the UK course, run by Richard Mornington-Sanford as a kind of road show, when he visited London Helicopter Centres at Redhill.
I would describe it as invaluable!
It makes you think and question practices you may have fallen into since completing the PPL(H). The accident video footage is uncomfortable to watch, but compelling and necessary. Dick has in-depth knowledge of each R22 / R44 accident, it's history and causes, as well as the engineering of the machines. For me, the course filled in a lot of gaps where things I had learnt during training a few years earlier had been forgotten / misunderstood / maybe even not properly taken in at the time.
An added benefit was the opportunity to meet other Robinson pilots of varying levels of experience - some owners, some CPLs and instructors, most self-fly-hirers like me.
I think to do it straight after the PPL(H) would perhaps be too soon. The information gleaned during training should be more than sufficient to fly safely post-PPL. A couple of years and a good few hours down the line is the time to have the content of this course drummed in, by which time a few bad habits and a little complacency may have slipped in. Difficult to explain, but we all agreed.
I plan to repeat the course in a few years once I have completed the instructor course, as a refresher. Who knows, maybe I will get to go to Torrance. One major advantage of the UK course is that the number are very low - only seven on my course.
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