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HeliTorque Forum Index » Ground School

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Frozen ATP?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Frozen ATP? Reply with quote

What is it? Well, it's when an ATP pilot stands out in the snow too long. Very Happy

Seriously, I had noticed the usage of "Frozen ATP" in a signature somewhere in the forum, and in various other places on the web, and did some research on the terminology.

"There is no such thing as a 'frozen ATPL' exam (or even a 'frozen ATPL'). The term 'Frozen ATPL' originated in UK/Europe and is nothing more than a convenient way to describe a person who holds a CPL, IR & all ATPL exams passed but has not yet had an ATPL issued. Usually that's because he or she does not yet meet one or more of the ATPL minimum experience requirements and/or has not met an ATPL issue flight test prerequisite but occassionally the person just may not have bothered even after meeting all the prerequisites."

You can read the entire commented post here from the PPRuNe Forum (Professional Pilots Rumor Network):

http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-346730.html

In the US, we do not use the terminology at all. If a pilot needs to complete additional flight requirements for the ATP rating, the written is valid for two years. If the pilot has not competed what was needed by then, probably doesn't remember the theory anyway, and the FAA will want the written re-taken.

Sad but true!



Gotta go now.........
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always took it to mean that you had all the exams/checkrides passed but didn't have the required flight time for the ATPL to be issued.

Remember this is UK/Europe aviation AB! Smile

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the UK a Frozen ATPL has the same privilages as a CPL but the person has completed the additional theory examinations required for the purpose of gaining a IR, they do not necessarily have the IR.

Why not call it a: JAA Commercial Pilots "but well done, you did 5 extra exams which now means you have to spend 35,000 on an IR in the next 3 years or resist them" Licence????

It's all a load of crap if you ask me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I often get asked the question shall I do CPL or ATPL theory? Back in the day it was a question that crossed my mind too and I found it all too confusing. I chose CPL.

It would be interesting to know other's thoughts on the subject. I did CPL, and to be honest if I'd done my ATPL exams I wouldn't have been able to afford the IR within 3 years anyway. So for me it was the right choice and my money was better spent on the FI rating. I guess it depends on whether you're dead set on going offshore though.

It would be really interesting to know how many people did ATPL and ended up not using it or having their exams lapse after 3 years.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did ATPL, at the time I knew no better and just thought that was the way. But I had planned on going offshore at somepoint, however with the NS job issues at the time I had lost hope of being sponsered for an IR. Then out of the blue Norsk gave me the opporunity providing I paid my own IR. So I took the loan and did it. I was lucky, Martin "The Man" Marsh extended my exams beyond the 3 years as there was no available spaces on IR courses prior to my exams expiring.

My opinion:

ATPL - If you want to go NS it's a must!

CPL - If you wish to stay onshore, however onshore folks can later in their career get the opportunity to fly corporate (Premiair etc.) or HEMS and therefor you will require an IR. But to go and do the extra exams is not a big deal, just have get get the head in the books for a bit.

My two cents. HH
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PilotWolf wrote:
Remember this is UK/Europe aviation AB! :)PW.


Yes, true. The article mentioned that it originated in the UK.Europe.

I can understand why such a term was created, but the only one freezing anything is the pilot, not ICAO.

AB
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting one indeed. I've just embarked on the ATPL ground school route. I'm waiting for a big box full of books to arrive.

I've not really made any firm decision on if whether or not to do the IR but I just want to keep my options open and I figure if my head is in the books anyway then why not suffer on a little longer and do those extra exams. I like the IR stuff a lot but word on the street is that it is probably the HARDEST thing you will ever do in aviation and it's none too cheap either.


Last edited by Chickenhawk on Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chickenhawk wrote:
I figure if my head is in the books anyway then why not suffer on a little longer and do those extra exams.

Very practical approach. A good pilot never stops learning. Even if you do not go the IR route, the knowledge is still invaluable!

Quote:
I like the IR stuff a lot ............... it is probably the HARDEST thing you will ever do in aviation and it's none to cheap either.

I do not believe that the IR is any harder than other ratings. It takes concentration and practice. Nothing more. As for cost......Who said flying was cheap?

Good luck. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject: CPL(H) VS ATPL(H) Reply with quote

Hi Guys,
I'm new to the site so will try not to make too much of an ass of myself.

I've searched through the forums for a couple of answers but haven't found them so i would like to pose a couple of questions.

1) CPL vs ATPL, am I correct in thinking you have 3 years after ATPL exams to gain IR otherwise the ATPL was unnecessary.

2) Reading LASORS (G3.3) I found this "The holder of a JAR-FCL CPL(H) and IR(H) satisfies the knowledge requirements for the issue of an ATPL(H)."
Does this mean if you have CPL, IR and the required hours for ATPL you may apply for an ATPL?

Finally, I'm based around London, Wycombe Air Park to be precise, and could do with some advice on CPL and ATPL ground schools based near me.
I would need to do distance learning for work reasons. Bristols has been recommended to me, but they only do ATPL, CAPT - Caledonian, is another that has been mentioned for the CPL but I don't know anyone thats been there.

Any responses would be gratefully received.

Regards
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MastBump

CAPT are pretty much the place to go now for helicopter commercial theory training, yes I am biased I know Phil well enough to say that he is committed to what he does (obsessed almost) he was the first person to come up with dedicated helicopter training, not the fixed wing stuff that most of the others seem to do.

Brtistol are a great bunch, thats where I went before CAPT was approved but they are (or were) fixed wiing with a helicopter afterthought.

CAPT are also based at Wycombe so its almost a no brainer.

There are more than just flight hours total requirements for the issue of an ATPL, you need multi crew time for one and multi engine time also.

Also now remember that the theoretical knowledge for the CPL does not cover you for the prerequisites for the first Multi Engine rating, only the ATPL writtens now do so. It you don't have ATPL theoretical knowledge you must complete the Multi Engine Pre Entry course. The only company I am aware of who hold this approval are CAPT.

Sorry if this sounds like an advert its not meant to, but no one else has yet bothered to get all the approvals to do these courses but Phil as far as I am aware.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info veeany.

I've met Phil in passing only once, but he seems like a very nice chap.

I think for my purposes CPL is the way to go, theres no way i will be doing an IR within 3 year.

Perhaps you could give your opinion on another matter..... Hours.

Am i better off just building hours in the cheapest machine I can, or sacrifice number of hours, for turbine time.

MastBumb
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