Very good advice from WG, and I hope people take it. Apparently personal comments about FTOs are not allowed, but it does go on "underground" and some Schools have a very bad reputation because of it. And rightly so!. Johnny.
Apparently personal comments about FTOs are not allowed
I've never seen that within any sites terms and conditions, and you are free to say what you like. You seem a tad aggrieved that I asked for clarification/details when you negatively generalised about a school where our opinions differ. I don't need the services of a training establishment and you mistake genuine interest with one of any real concern. That issue is yours alone dear fellow.
Its not a case of 'Johnny be bad', more 'Johnny possibly being foolish' (sure your CV combined with your postings would make you easy to identify, and I wasn't a detective). But go for your life, I have my career sorted. Full marks for trawling my previous posts to identify I'm an ex policeman If you'd asked I'd have told you who I was anyway, its not a secret
I'd guess your frustrations come from continued employment searching, maybe 2010 will be a better year for you in that regard
Thanks for giving me a chuckle. _________________ W.Y.S.I.W.Y.G.
As a slight twist on what Sarah was saying about working where you train.
I'd be very suspicious of any establishment that offers you a job before you have started training, as an incentive to train with them, how do they know if you will be any good ? Money is not the only requirement to becoming a good pilot or instructor.
Its nice to know that it may be an option, I used to work for a company who would offer instructional work to anyone who walked in and bought a whole course, great marketing to the layman, but what quality is there for the students of the newly qualified instructor if he is crap and only has a job through being able to afford a course, said company is not surprisngly no longer with us.
Joined: Jul 20, 2004 Posts: 3702 Location: Birmingham, UK
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:42 pm Post subject:
Gary, it's a fair point, but from personal experience, we see a lot of people are interested in this career change (and I have seen my fair share of complete and utter wasters who think they know it all and are generally are full of sh**). In fairness we tend to advise the serious ones to go for the PPL first and if their not pilot material it tends to show up in the first few hours, if not before they even get near a helicopter. You can tell a lot about a person's attitude when you spend enough time listening to what they have to say.
I probably haven't been in the industry long enough to come across the types that Gary describes, but all of our "career pilots" I've seen go all the way through to instructor rating so far have got work at the end of it - maybe it's just sheer luck that they were any good, but maybe it's a combination of their own motivational attitude and the quality of training - investing enough time and patience into this person because you know at the end of it all you want a good "product" that can give something back.
Or maybe I'm talking complete and utter rubbish. All I know is that if you want something badly enough you will work hard and do whatever it takes to make it happen. I am genuinely impressed with the quality (attitude) of people we had have coming through the door over the past couple of years, and I hope they will continue to make good pilots and instructors when they come out the other end - all I am concerned with is making sure they are receiving the best level of instruction I can offer and that with guidance and good advice they turn into safe and competent pilots. They will get out of it what they put in.
And this business about blatant slagging off particular training organisations or operators, nobody wants to hear that - it's not constructive. By all means give your views, plug their websites, write about your experiences (we don't censor things like that as other forums may ). We're here to offer constructive advice to those who ask for it. Guys I know everyone is entitled to an opinion but since it is a public forum we really will have to start moderating comments that could be interpreted as slanderous -most of the industry is registered on here and if it keeps happening it won't be good for any of us. Granted, there are some genuine crooks out there and people who shouldn't even be allowed near a helicopter, but if you have something of paramount importance to say, send it by private message, otherwise we'll all end up suffering the consequences. Semi-rant over!
FW, You bite every time mate..........!, You are the one being "sensitive", we should agree to disagree. You are in no position to judge me from what I'v heard, doing it "underground". I am in Full-Time Employment and thank you for caring.
Veeany has made some good points and been very well answered by the lovely WG. Johnny.
We must be on different planets Your posts leave nothing to 'bite' at.
There is no major issue about which we need to 'agree to disagree'. My clear mistake was asking you to clarify your comments about a school I'd used previously, and to ask for more details about your experiences in the USA. Perhaps if you'd elaborated it may have altered my opinion, and helped others for whom the information was more relevant? Perhaps not. But continuing with fact less posts (when clearly you have something to say) gives no information to anybody
You're wrong again when you suggest I care. I merely tried to point out you may be damaging yourself. What you do with that viewpoint is entirely down to you. I genuinely wont lose any sleep
You are in no position to judge me from what I'v heard, doing it "underground"
I'm intrigued by this bit though, now you comment adversely specificly about me. I've not judged you (see above). With a known identity I've no need to 'do' anything 'underground'. If I have a viewpoint good or bad I'm willing to 'put my name' to it. I've done so many times, but directly.
Our difference is that I don't use a third party internet forum to do so. Acknowledging that posts can adversely affect the site owners. So please do go on. What have you heard? Are you willing to put your name to your posts and opinions? Or will they remain factless (in the main pointless) 'drive by shooting'esque postings? Go on, surprise me!
FW _________________ W.Y.S.I.W.Y.G.
Last edited by flingingwings on Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
As for my opinions of a certain School, I found them to be unfriendly and unhelpful. Kept waiting for three hours!, to speak to someone about IR Training. "He's busy maaute, should of made an appointment" well I did actually!. Anyway found all the other one's most helpful and first impressions do last. My name is Johnny.
Last edited by Helijohn on Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
What you say about Helicopter Services is what you could have elaborated on months ago, without the need for the sarcasm.
Conversely - I'd originally booked an IR with Bristows. Two days before my course was due to start their (now defunct) AB206 went u/s and no spares were available. With 6 weeks until my exams expired I was left somewhat in a situation. I called every IR provider in the UK, all were full. The only one willing to help me out was Helicopter Services. The course was as disjointed as I'd have expected given my extra last minute attendance, but it was detailed, complete, professionally completed and the staff/owner 'bent over backwards' to help me out. Their original Sim instructor was hugely respected, his recent funeral only further proving that.
You now see the fundamental difference between us. I'm willing to be accountable for my views and comments. If asked, I will recommend or pass negative comments about certain operators, schools and/or individuals - BUT those comments will be first hand fact based, and always followed up with " But ultimately you need to go and decide for yourself" The PMs or emails also have my real actual name.
Thats distinctly different to your approach to forum use and your recent comment aimed directly at me. Your reply is also different in nature to your original statement.
So are/were you confused? Have you actually heard any comments about me? Do I advise people against a certain school? Common decency would dictate that once you decide to publicly pass comment on an individual that you have the guts to provide your full name by PM or otherwise (rather than your flippant final comment).
I'd like to know who is willing to post about me when possibly unsure of my identity.Particularly as I'm unsure whether your last reply is yet more of your trademark sarcasm. Your 'apology' says something about you, but your lack of accountability says more. You know where the PM function is, or should I ask the site owners? _________________ W.Y.S.I.W.Y.G.
FW, You did ask me to elaborate...Which I wasn't going to. Yes I agree people should visit all the FTOs they want to and form their own opinion. I had a bad experience, you didn't. WG said you should share your personal experiences. I'm sure people have much more pressing issues they want to discuss and are bored of this as much as I am. You can reply if you like, to get the last word, but I won't. J.
Joined: Mar 20, 2006 Posts: 8 Location: 53 and a bit degrees north
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:34 pm Post subject:
A word of advice mate. When you do post on aviation related forums, please realise that many people may read, but not post, but those people can indirectly influence the way your life may ultimately turn out. What if you apply for a job one day, and you're sitting across the desk from the Chief Pilot, and it just so happens you were being less than pleasant to him on the forum the night before? Believe me, the helicopter comunity is a small one and it's not difficult to find out who people are very quickly.
I'm not saying you are being entirely antagonistic, but before you post, maybe go away, have a coffe, take a time-out, and then post. Don't do it immediately on reading something. I am also prone to post without thinking sometimes, on many forums. I'm lucky, i'm now flying for a living, but, things could have worked out differently.
PS, I also did a course at HS. The owner can be a cantankerous git sometimes but that's just his way. (I guarantee he wouldn't mind me saying it either). Like it or lump it. _________________ www.helicoptersafety.org.uk
For what it's worth, I did my 300 skills test with LS and he was simply excellent. Friendly, relaxed, and it was a generally good (and informative) experience. I have also spoken with MG there a couple of times - again extremely helpful, constructive, etc etc.
I so very nearly ended up doing my CPL(H) through these guys...... (it was mainly my lack of proximity to them that swayed me).
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