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HeliTorque :: View topic - Hello! new to all of this, just a few questions please?
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Wannabes

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Hello! new to all of this, just a few questions please? Goto page Previous  1, 2
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James T Lowe
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thinking.... I don't know precisely where the switch is, on the R44's collective, but I'd be willing to bet that it's a bit of a myth that the datcon doesn't count when in autorotation. When was the last time you auto'd a R44, and the lever was fully down?

So, at what collective angle does the Datcon switch on?
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raffski
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure exactly where, most likely the microswitch?
However, I can attest to my billing amount being significantly lighter when comparing like for like lessons between the 22 and 44... Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raffski,

Some fair points. Limitations should be followed, and CoG is an integral part of preflight planning.

It's always difficult to comment on 3rd party information, but it doesn't sound like your colleague took the time to explain things. To Lee or 22flyer.

Quote:
Well actually he suggested doing the first 15 hours in a 22, then switching to a 44 and qualifying that way


As that was the advice given I presume the CoG for Lee and the instructor would have been within limits? I may be missing something........... but if 15hrs is ok, why couldn't the course be completed on an R22?


For the benefit of other potential 16 stone students and, as I'm away from an R22 POH perhaps you could use your laminated card?
In fact anybody with an R22 POH and an aircraft Basic Empty Mass could help with this...........

Using your weight and a 16 stone student how much fuel could your chosen R22 hold? And what endurance would that give Lee?

Conceding there may be different BEMs on R22s I see something to your point-that said from memory most weigh roughly 860 lbs. However my comments were based on weighing 16stone, learning across several R22s, and then teaching on several other different R22s. All without any major issues, and always remaining within CoG.

There are plenty of lighter instructors and examiners out there Cool In fact I'm sat opposite a lightweight (compared to me) FE right now

If it helps Lee compare costs maybe looking at costs based on each 0.1 would help?(it's roughly a 1.6 x difference between the R22 and R44)

Lee,
I don't know if you've looked at this document? If not it's worth taking a peak.

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=175&pagetype=68&gid=780

LASORs is a CAA document that details licensing requirements in English. Section C2 covers a PPL(H). In that you'll see that minimum course duration (without exemptions) is 45 hrs. If you ultimately decide to do the 15 x R22 and remainder on R44, bear in mind that minimum time (regardless of ability) will rise to 50 hrs. This is because within a PPL(H) requirements are set on minimum hours to be completed on ONE type - namely 25hrs dual and 10 hrs supervised solo. (Hence 15 in an R22 plus the minimum 35 hours required in an R44)


Re the R44 datcon, and my elderly memory may be incorrect, I seem to recall that the microswitch is positioned such that the meter begins to 'run' once a certain blade pitch is achieved. If enough autos are conducted there is a noticeable difference between flight time and datcon time.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flingwings,
I'm away from all my planning resources at the minute, however from memory the issue is more to do with exceeding forward CG as opposed to all up mass. It is certainly aircraft specific, we have one that is very tolerant of weight issues (an older beta), and the rest are not.
It does sound like there was a mixed conversation, it either works or doesn't!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raffski,

It will be a CoG issue. As opposed to an MAUW issue. Always good to DISPEL the myth that an R22 is always within CoG so long as seat weight and MAUW are not exceeded. Seem to recall that 2x Veeany plus fuel to reach MAUW exceeds CoG Laughing

Would also agree that as BEMs and resultant moment arms will be slightly different that CoG is aircraft specific.

A generalisation will do for simple purposes though.
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