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HeliTorque Forum Index » Torque, Chat, and Chill!

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Flying inverted?!!
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Helirazor
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Flying inverted?!! Reply with quote

Can anyone settle an arguement with regards to full size helicopters flying inverted (upside down). I know it is possible with model R/C helicopters which are set up for 3D flight, but there seems to be a great difference in opinion as to, if and what full size heli is capable to do this!
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northernhero
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flying upside down or hovering?

models can do either for several reasons , power to weight is much larger than full size, model blades are much stiffer than full size so do not cone nearly as much , pitch amounts are greater - a model can have a pitch range of -10 to +10 degrees of pitch quite easily so can hover inverted using its negative pitch.

some full size helis can 'fly' inverted in as much as loop and roll but not for sustained periods , indeed loops are generally not a true loop more an 'e' shape as the aircraft is falling when inverted also in a roll

hope it helps, short answer is models can full size cant
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Helirazor
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that, some one owes me a fiver lol! i'll split it with you if we ever meet lol!
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Dijksterhuis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure that several of you have seen the Blue Eagles. The Lynx AH.7 displays a complete loop. During the display they also make some sort of loop. Don't know the right name (backlid??) for it, sorry. But the pilot pulls the Lynx backwards and makes a loop without losing altitude actually. Amazing to see. Have to dig for some photographs...

A normal loop can be seen here

Watch this Video in a New Window


Found it!

Watch this Video in a New Window


Arjan
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SilsoeSid
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But the pilot pulls the Lynx backwards and makes a loop without losing altitude actually.


I think you'll find that during the backflip, quite a lot of height is indeed lost.
May I suggest that you watch your own video link!

My pic from RIAT2007

click to enlarge
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JBL
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who was fortunate enough to be at the Red Bull Air race in London today, would also have been witness to some fantastic inverted chopper flying from a Lynx and one of the Red Bull Team heli's - absolutely spectacular - loops and rolls !
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oi_martin
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would that have been the Red Bull Bolkow 105, there was a link on here somewhere to a You Tube video of it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Full-size helicopters cannot maintain inverted flight. There is no facility for negative pitch in flight (some navy helos have negative pitch for when they are on a ship's deck), which you would need, and the aircraft is statically and dynamically unstable.

Inverted flight is possible during loops, barrel rolls etc while positive G is held.

Bolkow heads and some military machines are able to withstand negative G, down to -1, during push-overs and hammerheads, but that is not sustained flight.

Most helos hang below the hub, giving static stability, and like a bucket on a chain, can be moved around. But try to get a bucket on a chain to stand upright inverted. Doesn't work.

Other reasons are:
* Engines for helos don't have inverted flight sumps, so you would rapidly run out of oil.
* Before that happened, you run out of fuel, for the same reason.
* Your brain couldn't cope fast enough with the reversed inputs required to stay on top of the rotor
* You would be killed by the blade entering the cockpit before the engine flammed out or the transmission seized.
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JBL
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin, my heli recognition is not great - only on the stuff I fly !! But, I think you are right in your guess. Have you found the link on YouTube?

JBL
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WhirlyGuy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any of these any good?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lUYwHXfxLpc

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BzvINHqu8X0

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-GJYkIDABKw

WhirlyGuy
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JBL
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now this one of the Red Bull heli itself !

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RGu45s1_QPU&mode=related&search=
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Tim99
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Red Bull helicopter was the headliner at this years Vertical Challenge Helicopter Air Show. Chuck Aaron, the pilot, and the entire Red Bull team were wonderful to work with. Their show was awesome.

Timothy McIntosh
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NoordzeeCowboy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great bit of flying.........................Much better than wathing a Lynx back flip!
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