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HeliTorque :: View topic - Vortex Ring sting
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Flight Dynamics

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Lynx7
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:05 am    Post subject: Vortex Ring sting Reply with quote

Back to basics but always a good 'en!

Vortex ring. (Settling with power for the colonial septic types!)

What causes it, how can you get into it and more importantly how can you get out of it??

Again, all you old duffers, stand easy, let the NIGS answer!! (Thomas Coupling, I dont want to hear of bluffing stories of 'lack of anticipators' either, we both know it was down to bad awareness and lack of airmanship!!!!). Wink
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Thomas Coupling
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

er....

too much weight perhaps Confused
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WhirlyGirl
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:56 am    Post subject: Vortex Ring Reply with quote

Hmm, ok, I'll give this one a go...

What Is Vortex Ring?
An aerodynamic condition in which the helicopter is in vertical descent even when maximum power is applied.

What Causes It?
Vortex ring may occur during any maneuver that places the main rotor in a condition of strong upflow and low forward airspeed, but is more likely in certain conditions i.e. during recovery from autorotations, attempting to hover OGE without pricise control of altitude, or during downwind, steep power approaches.

How Do You Get Out Of It?
Apply forward cyclic to increase airspeed and simultaniously reduce collective until the helicopter passes through effective translational lift.


I have been studying this week Wink
Am I on the right track? Any further suggestions anyone?

WhirlyGirl
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L
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The VORTEX turbulenceses can sometimes clearly be seen at the blade tips....
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always been taught that if you remove one of the three causal factors (power applied, rate of descent, low airspeed) then you'll get out of it. The technique I've been taught is minimum height loss recovery and is simply application of forward cyclic for airspeed - don't touch the collective!

Therefore, it is interesting that you say about reducing the collective, WhirlyGirl, I don't fully understand why that might help. To my mind, it'll just help lose more height, and given that VRS is more likely nearer the ground, that doesn't seem a particularly sensible thing to do.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:32 pm    Post subject: Vortex Ring Reply with quote

Ok, I have to admit that I haven't actually practiced getting into, or more importantly out of vortex ring as yet. I am sure I will soon, as my hours are building up, however I have been reading a lot about it lately as I have been studying for my helicopter technical exam, and I was just going on the theories that I have read about.

I can see that lowering the collective at very low altitude would be foolish becuase the last thing you want to do is descend any further and hit the deck, but what about at altitude? I am sure it wil all become more clear when I actully practice it! Confused

Are there any vortex ring experts out there?!

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Thomas Coupling
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi WG.

I don't think Simon will let you lower the lever:wink:

Just gently apply forward stick to gain airspeed, and keep the thing pointing in a straight line.

Remember, V.R State is as a result of 3 factors

1: R.O.D > 300 FPM
2: Airspeed < 30 KTS
3: Power applied

Always ALWAYS consider V.R on landings, particually confined area's and down wind Op's.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:27 pm    Post subject: Hi TC Reply with quote

How are you - haven't heard from you on the site for a while!! You ARE still alive aren't you????!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he is hiding from us girlies since we threatened to post his drunken moments on the HeliTorque site..!! Wink

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Thomas Coupling
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now steady on Wink

I've got work to do you know! Very Happy

I bought a new house last December. It was originally built for the preciding judge in the Cray twins case back in the 60's.

4 building stages, 2 needed to be completed by the time bad weather sets in this year.

Stage 1 = Hangar Wink
Stage 2 = Offices
Stage 3 = House & Pool Rolling Eyes
Stage 4 = Grounds

1 & 2 are complete now thank goodness, and 3 starts a week tomorrow. Number 4 can wait until next Spring.

I've spent the last few weeks finishing off the hangar. The last job was floor painting. Sounds easy? you have got to be kidding. Floor painting on a power floated floor is a science!

Anyway, all finished and ready to put the machine in after the 100 hour service looming next week. I'll post some photo's of the hangar if you like.

I'm up for some idea's on what to paint on the roof - you know the sort of thing... "Up the CAA" Or a big painted target perhaps. Something that only pilots would see and have a giggle. The place is located on the Eastern edge of the Luton zone so the air space is used quite a lot by heli's avoiding Stanstead and Luton. I'll post the Longs & Lats later when I'm resident.

So you see, I'm a busy old bunny at the mo.

TC
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are having a conference at the moment about what you need to paint on your roof!!

We will have a think!!! and maybe give you some ideas very soon!!

Glad you are still alive anyway, TC!!

By the way, me and Whirlygirl have made a super dooper mini video - nothing to do with flying though!! It's the CAN CAN!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Say.... Wink

The Can Can eh?

Now that would beat post 11pm Men & Motors any day Shocked

And what exactly is this in aid of?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And what exactly is this in aid of?


It was the result of yet another drunken night on the town and then getting a bit carried away with the video camera!! Basically four of us went out to watch Jesus Christ Superstar in Birmingham and when we came back home we were still in drinking, singing and dancing mode!!

You'd love the movie... shame you won't get to see it! Wink

Then again, if you let me do my type conversion in your Jetranger...

WhirlyGirl
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:05 pm    Post subject: The Can Can!! Reply with quote

They can 'can can' y'know!!! They can get their legs higher than their heads!! But, steady on chaps!!! This was for private viewing only, so sorry TC, don't be bribed by Whirlygirl into type conversion training in exchange for a viewing of the video!! I am the censor!! And, what is on the video is technically impossible!!

As for your hangar roof - '??10 to land here - cheaper than Luton!'

Will await photos of the site.

How many bubbles have you got on the hangar floor?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

Good One!

I was thinking of a huge compass, the wrong way round of course! That would confuse the studes Wink

So..They Can, Can they Shocked Higher than their heads eh?

Wonderful thoughts Rolling Eyes Now about this conversion WG......
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