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HeliTorque :: View topic - how long will I be paying off my loan?
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Wannabes

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novice
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: how long will I be paying off my loan? Reply with quote

Hi, had a trial lesson the other day and loved every minute of it. I have mainly fixed wing expirence but want a career in helicopters. Researched a few flying schools and have a rough estimate of 50k for a ppl cpl and fi rating, is that about right? tried pprune and got snotty comments or bad witt. Just wanted to know if you guys did it using the bank of mum and dad or hsbc or something? thanks
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive not looked at this for a while but I created a Cost to FI spreadsheet a few years ago , and whilst it probably is missing something and the numbers are out of date, if you put in todays costs it might give you an idea.

http://www.griffin-helicopters.co.uk/public%20docs/heli%20cost%20to%20fi.xls

Like I said I've not opened it in years so if it helps great, if not at least I tried.
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James T Lowe
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi novice, Welcome to Helitorque! (We don't bite here!) And, welcome to the addictive world of rotary flying!

First of all, where are you based? I'm assuming you're in the UK at least! Wink We're all quite fond of our own schools, so will more than happily recommend some!

I think a 50K outlay would sound about right to get to CPL - certainly when I'd thought about it some years ago, that was a very rough figure that I kept coming back to. Of course, that's going to fluctuate with how long it takes you to get through the various stages.

I dare say, with some clever accounting, such as getting VAT repaid, you could get that down a bit. I'm sure WhirlyGirl (and others?) could help further with that.

Meanwhile, if you want an insight in the PPL part of the course, take a look at my training diary - although I'm sure some of it will be covering old ground given your fixed-wing experience!

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Last edited by James T Lowe on Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:38 am; edited 2 times in total
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novice
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all useful thanks, I'm very concerned that i will take out a massive loan if I'm even given one, and spend the rest of my life struggling to pay it off. I live in Leicestershire, between Leicester and Sywell so its either Sloanes or Helicentre who both seem very professional and well regarded. My lesson was in a schwiser but i would expect to train in an R22. I was thinking maybe splitting my time between both to try and expand my contacts, is that a good idea or is it better to be loyal to one school?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reality. Reply with quote

To answer the question, I worked abroad for 14 years and saved to pay for my courses.

It's all well and good to generalise about 'spending the rest of your life to pay off the loan', but lending institutions are generally not like that, and are not willing to allow you the rest of your life to pay one off. To take out a loan, someone in your position is likely to need someone to guarantee the loan, and over a specified (short) term. So if you don't earn enough to pay it off, then whoever guaranteed it will have to pay it off for you. You have to consider if your guarantor could afford to lose that money if you can't pay any loan off.

IMHO, the work is not there to make taking out a loan a feasible option.

However I do commend you for deciding to train 'local'. Too many people take the (short sighted) decision to train in the US or elsewhere, and then expect the industry at home to give them a job once they return, having put nothing into the industry at the outset.

I'm not biting here, but there is a cold hard reality to be acknowledged. Having said that, people are doing courses every day, and there is a slow trickle of jobs, it can be a matter of right place, right time, but even then starting out on the ladder it's a struggle to pay the mortgage never mind a loan.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depending on how close you are to leicester you may want to check out East Midlands Helicopters (http://www.helicopter-services.co.uk/) based in Costock, where I did my PPL training recently. I found them to be very friendly and professional and they had the best prices I could find when I was looking.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Reality. Reply with quote

raffski wrote:
However I do commend you for deciding to train 'local'. Too many people take the (short sighted) decision to train in the US or elsewhere, and then expect the industry at home to give them a job once they return, having put nothing into the industry at the outset.


Guess Bristow for one disagree with you there... hope you only buy from locals stores and UK manufactured goods too Twisted Evil Wink

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raffski
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PilotWolf, I hold firm to my opinion, if you want a job in the UK industry, one of the first questions you may be asked is where did you do your training.

My point is, it's a bit much to spend all your money elsewhere and then come back to the UK expecting a job. If everyone did that then there would be no industry and no jobs! In any case, in "these changed economic times", I believe a home grown candidate stands a better chance of getting a job than someone who has trained elsewhere. In the good old days when demand was high, companies would take pilots from wherever they could find them, these days it's just not like that.

Bristow may be a good option for people depending on their own personal circumstances, but it doesn't help the UK/Irish training industry one bit. I guess it all depends on what you want to do once qualified.

(And as it happens, I do try to shop local, large multinational supermarkets are the enemy, restricting choice and dictating what we buy by their buying policies, although that may be thread creep). thumbup
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn, Nick beat me to it! East Midlands Helicopters might be worth a look, although it is the other side of Leicester from you. As Niho said, they are usually pretty competitive on price!

As for splitting schools, I personally don't see the harm in it, say do the PPL part in one place, then CPL at another. I think if you were to chop(!) and change during one section, you potentially compromise continuity of training, and so cover the same ground more than once.

You probably find, whichever one you pick, you'll have a handful of instructors anyway - I think I had 4 instructors on my PPL course - so you'll get a variety of experiences to absorb too.

raffski - I think you have a point about "homegrown" candidates. One of the instructors at EMH, whom I often fly with for LPC/check rides, etc., happened to be trained by the same instructor I had for majority of my PPL course. He started there as PPL, and now works there... surely there's something in that? (Actually, it is rather odd - my CAA licence/reference number is LOWER than his...!) A student starting with a company becomes quite well known to that company, and therefore if the "right place right time" happens, there's a good chance of employment. That's also seems to be a mighty fine reason to try a handful of different organisations for different elements of the course!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: how long will I be paying off my loan? Reply with quote

novice wrote:
tried pprune and got snotty comments or bad witt.


Me too!

They seem to forget that they were students one day looking for advice!

Good luck!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James T Lowe, it's how I got hired. Had done my R44 type rating, CPL H and other bits and bobs with my company. It was several years down the line when it happened, but it did happen.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looked at East Midlands, another good contender however sloanes offer r22 self hire hours at 155 +vat if you book a block of 20. ACA in florida offer 150 hour FAA cpl course with accomodation for 17,500 which i could then convert and benifit from an Faa and Jaa license opening up a new region for employment. however i am well aware that in the UK, airspace and weather are a whole new ball game, and UK employers frown on training abroad. I have my nppl to show i've trained here aswell, but i do belive I am clutching at straws here?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

novice wrote:
Looked at East Midlands, another good contender however sloanes offer r22 self hire hours at 155 +vat if you book a block of 20.


True, however the cost of training there is over 1000 more expensive and they seem to do 5 hours in a simulator (I'm not sure of any advantages in using a simulator rather than the real thing)

The problem I can think of with the american route is the fact that you will need to do all of the exams again over here if you want to convert your FAA license to a JAA license.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

novice - you should try some negotiation! EMH only "publish" a 10 hour block rate, but if you want to buy a block of more hours than that, then there's no harm in trying to knock that rate down a bit!

That said, 155 does seem very good for 20 hours - is that a current rate?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A nice thing about EMH is that they operated from their own "helipad'. Not a big plus (may be) but nice.
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