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HeliTorque :: View topic - LH/RH P1 seat
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Flight Dynamics

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northernhero
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ff , the single tank for a 269 goes on the left hand side (portside ) as viewed from the drivers seat, and as for decent range even with only one tank a CBi will do 3hrs to a tank ( 2 1/2 withreserve) how far are you going!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah well, I was actually using good ol' guesswork there as my Blue Book was in my bag and too far to get up and go fetch it so I guessed at where the fuel tank (as a single) would go. I stand corrected!

Wherever I wanna go, there's never enough fuel..

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60Driver
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:16 pm    Post subject: RH-P1 Reply with quote

Greetings all, first post here. Going back to the original post regarding RH-P1. In the US, helicopters are setup for right seat PIC. The reason is simple. Way back when rotorcraft were put into the FAR's it was decided that since they were quite different from fixed wing, they should avoid fixed wing traffic. Since left hand traffic is standard traffic for fixed wing (I presume that's why the PIC sits left seat in fixed wing) the idea was helicopters would fly right traffic. In the real world the only helicopters flying a pattern are training to fly a pattern, or practicing some type of maneuver/EP (auto's, hydraulics off, fixed pedal etc). US military helicopters are always right seat PIC and most have an instrument panel that favors the right seat.

Funny thing is, the abbreviated left seat instrument panel offers a better view so quite often military PIC's will choose to fly left seat for better vis. This of course does not apply for IMC flights where regulations require the PIC to sit in the PIC (right) seat. This all leads to the "I can PIC from the left seat" cool factor so some opt for the left seat just because it's presumably cool. We pilots can be rather shallow about certain things Wink

Right side vs left side tail rotor? Main blade rotation has nothing to do with it. Some AC such as the UH-1 can be found with the tail rotor on either side depending on the model. Same for AH-1's and other's I'm not familiar with. I've flown both and can't tell the difference, but I'm no Chuck Yeager in the flying world either Laughing

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(Do turbines have similar buffers/power maximums?)


Nope.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I missing something. What regulation requires me to be in the right seat during IMC?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Am I missing something. What regulation requires me to be in the right seat during IMC?


In your case I would assume none. Smile If however you were flying one of the ancients such as the UH-1, the PIC's station for IMC flight is right seat. My verbage suffers, my intent was to note that some aircraft have this requirement, not all.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason for the right seat PIC /P1 is that in flight you can let go of the collective and adjust radios/transpoder etc easily if sat in the right seat.

Now the plot thickens the Hughes tooling company built the H269 as a military scout a/c and trainer because of this to make it more appealing to the military they made it left seat PIC so you can put in an extra observer/ pax in the A/c if it was right seat PIC you cant do this! this is why 269 and 369 is like this. I hope this helps it has nothing to do with rotation of main rotors .
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being a driver on many LH and RH aricraft, does it have nothing to do with the location of the TR. Thouse who know the AS350 does it makes the most sence to have the pilot on the left side since it
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

re the LH or RH, with different helis, depends on what you want to do and what the machine is. If you can long line out of the RH side of a UH1 you must have very loooong arms or be using the mirrors.

we drive JR's and UH1's from the left as we mainly do long line and slung work, and leaning out the LHS all day is easier than the RHS. also have other benefits when you have maximum loads as the Bell helicopter wants you to fly it from the Left. full power on the nose wants to go right, if you fly from the right you either need full left pedal, less power going to the MR, or you can't see where you are going. even worse in the UH1. similar thing happens when coming in loaded, power on nose wants to go right just let it and have the tail hanging out in fresh air. if you want to do it from the rhs thenagain need full left pedal to keep eye on load and also where you are going.

with the JR sitting LH low, can get very interesting if you are letting people out in the hover, as you let them out on your side and can get out of CG very easily.

When hovering by steep hills, can use left hand to pass items out the window, or door. also when landing in tight spots can pop door open and have a look out to see your TR. also gives more storage room between seats to put diary, maps etc

just my 2 cents, always flowen from left, so only slightly biased...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there anything in LASORS about this?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt it - surely it's more of a type specific thing, and as such would be contained in the POH for each aircraft?
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thought I'd resurrect this four-year-old thread as we never seemed to come to a conclusion and it came up again in a conversation today.

As SuperF quite rightly said (and which I now understand from experience!), Long Line flying is virtually impossible from the right seat, unless you have retractable arm extensions! I flew from the left seat doing long line for almost 20 hours in an R44. At the time I wasn't an instructor. As far as I know there is nothing in the POH stating this is not allowed (as I wasn't soloing and there was somebody sitting on the right), and this seems to be common practice in the utility world. I can't imagine trying to lean out far enough to see the tail when sitting in the right seat!

So let's forget utility for a moment and just look at normal flying. Is there anything laid down in writing specifying that you must fly from the right seat when you're on a non-solo flight (i.e. someone else sitting on the right)? For example, two pilots decide to go on a private flight in an R22 to have a bite of lunch at a hotel. After starting up, pilot 1 (RH) suddenly decides he doesn't feel like flying and asks Pilot 2 to take over. They can't be bothered to shut down and swap seats and pilot 2 (LH, who also happens to be an instructor) agrees to do the flying instead. Is there any harm in Pilot 2 flying the whole trip and landing at the hotel from the left seat, being as it's not actually an instructional trip and off-airfield? I think not, as there is nothing in the POH preventing a pilot flying from the left seat provided they are not solo (particularly an instructor who is used to flying from that side). However, I could be wrong and would be only too happy to be corrected.

I know it's a strange and fussy question but it came up in a discussion today and I couldn't give a straight answer on it so I said I'd ask around. I'm not sure if it's a grey area, or one of these "unwritten rules", but I'd really like to be able to pass on the correct information if I'm asked the question again.

Hope that's not too heavy for a Friday night! On another note, can you believe it? I didn't even have my PPL when this thread first started!!

Sarah
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now Sarah as a new instructor you should know better !!
Take a 269, as instructor you sit in the right seat ( providing it is not an old 269a or cbi) the student sits in the left hand seat which has the starting mechanism. You sign the tech log so you are the captain but you can also fly the machine. Basically it doesnt matter unless the FM tells you differently. The 269C FM tells you solo flight from left seat only, bit difficult from right seat as you couldnt start it !!!!
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Hughes500,

Sure! Agreed, on an instructional flight in an R22, R44, or 300cbi the instructor would obviously sit on the left (269 on the right), BUT, the question was posed with regards to a non-instructional flight, just two pilots out on a jolly, so I just wanted to make sure the rules aren't different in this case.

Somebody I spoke to argued that the authorities might have something to say if something happened on a flight and the pilot was found to be flying from the left in an R22, despite the fact that the R22 POH doesn't directly prohibit this provided there is someone sitting on the right.

There is also nothing in the flight manual to suggest that you have to be an instructor to handle the controls from the left side when two rated pilots are flying, but I have heard people debating that also. I guess these things are not written down anywhere and they will continue to be debated by people with different opinions... Rolling Eyes

On another note I have also spoken to instructors who have mentioned that they always do trial lessons in the 206 from the right seat due to easier access to the frictions and throttle, but that's another story...

Sarah
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesnt make any difference to where the pilot sits as long as he has a set of controls. The capt is the one who signs the tech log and is the responsible person when the sh_t hits the fan
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you! I thought that was the case, but I had someone insisting that the pilot has to sit on the right no matter what, and that you must be an instructor to sit in the other seat. As it doesn't state that anywhere in the POH I was a bit skeptical of the remark. Thanks for clarifying.

Sarah
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