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HeliTorque Forum Index » Torque, Chat, and Chill!

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ALFA8C
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well after a few months break in my training due to family commitments I had another lesson yesterday and to be honest I still couldn't fully relax, got caught in a few thermals which rocked the ship a bit too.

There is a very large thread on this subject on another forum and one post stood out from a guy who said he though that his uneasiness was caused by the instability of the R22, something which struck a chord with me.

So on chatting to a few people they made a a suggestions of
having some lessons in an larger aircraft such as the R44 i.e larger, more stable and substantial than an R22?

Your further thoughts would be appreciated.
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animalsticks
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALFA8C - the larger machines are heavier and handle 'not so twitchy' however (IMHO) the R22 is better for training your handling skills.

I too have had the "whoooaaa" feeling in the R22 that can sometimes feel overwhelming and also in a jetranger.

I enjoy reading the AAIB incident reports and often you read of complacency being a key factor in accidents.

Don't sweat. It's healthy if you're affirming yourself that you are doing it right.

Don't confuse this with doubting yourself - nervous is one thing, unprepared is another.
If you're feeling anxious every time you flick a switch then (to quote) "you don't know what you don't know" - study, seek assistance.

The pressure of responsibility is yours because you're there to do a job:-Know your sh*t.

Besides, a good instructor is not going to send you away to play in a 100'000 machine if he's not confident you're probably going to bring it back Very Happy
edited to add
Hope this helps.
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ALFA8C
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

animalsticks wrote:
ALFA8C - the larger machines are heavier and handle 'not so twitchy' however (IMHO) the R22 is better for training your handling skills.

I too have had the "whoooaaa" feeling in the R22 that can sometimes feel overwhelming and also in a jetranger.

I enjoy reading the AAIB incident reports and often you read of complacency being a key factor in accidents.

Don't sweat. It's healthy if you're affirming yourself that you are doing it right.

Don't confuse this with doubting yourself - nervous is one thing, unprepared is another.
If you're feeling anxious every time you flick a switch then (to quote) "you don't know what you don't know" - study, seek assistance.

The pressure of responsibility is yours because you're there to do a job:-Know your sh*t.

Besides, a good instructor is not going to send you away to play in a 100'000 machine if he's not confident you're probably going to bring it back Very Happy
edited to add
Hope this helps.


Thanks for that.

Nervous yes, unprepared no but I sometimes feel that, in the turn/bank, the thing is just going to flip over or that the slightest thermal is going to knock us 'over'!

I just thought that maybe a larger, heavier machine might help me get used to upper air work then when I feel more at ease going back to the R22!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do try the bigger machines ask the instructor to demo some unusual attitudes.
You will notice that, although there's a lesser noticeable 'twitchy-ness' than in smaller machines, the forces experienced when being thrown around seem more pronounced. Perhaps due to the higher AUWs and arms involved.
It does feel a lot smoother in the B206 than in the R22 though.
Flying the jetranger after flying R22 seemed very easy.
Not sure it would be the same the other way.
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ALFA8C
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

animalsticks wrote:
If you do try the bigger machines ask the instructor to demo some unusual attitudes.
You will notice that, although there's a lesser noticeable 'twitchy-ness' than in smaller machines, the forces experienced when being thrown around seem more pronounced. Perhaps due to the higher AUWs and arms involved.
It does feel a lot smoother in the B206 than in the R22 though.
Flying the jetranger after flying R22 seemed very easy.
Not sure it would be the same the other way.


It's certainly worth a try, also I might try some more shorter lessons than one long one and even doing 10 minutes or so hover work to before the upper air work!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

animalsticks wrote:
Flying the jetranger after flying R22 seemed very easy.
Not sure it would be the same the other way.


Like going from a nice sports car to a go cart?!

One has to be very careful with power 'issues' too Rolling Eyes the little R22 doesn't climb like a nice turbine machine!

W.
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ALFA8C
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PilotWolf wrote:
animalsticks wrote:
Flying the jetranger after flying R22 seemed very easy.
Not sure it would be the same the other way.


Like going from a nice sports car to a go cart?!

One has to be very careful with power 'issues' too Rolling Eyes the little R22 doesn't climb like a nice turbine machine!

W.


Do you think it would help though, just to get me used to the strange 'environment'?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally? I think not - but maybe some of the instructor types might have other views...

The fact that the 206/R44/etc behave differently means you won't get used to the handling and issues you have with flying the 22. Given the extra costs involved in flying a bigger machine I would put the (if you have it to 'spare') towards more lessons in the 22 in the those conditions. Plus I think there is a limit to how many types/hrs you can use in your training in the UK?

Also you are going to be trying to learn a whole new machine and it controls, instruments and handling characteristics as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best to stick with what youve been training in, it may just go away, its something i'll look out for when i start my training

Just out of curiosity, have you got any hearing probs .. i had a similar prob years ago .. everytime i was up 3-400 ft on scaffolding i would feel a bit uneasy, not sure how to describe it, but it turned out to be a small blockage in 1 ear .. was fine after

Just another thought, could it be lack of oxygen at higher altitudes? and your body needs to adjust?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="PilotWolf"]
animalsticks wrote:
Flying the jetranger after flying R22 seemed very easy......

One has to be very careful with power 'issues' too Rolling Eyes the little R22 doesn't climb.....


(.....at all???) Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PilotWolf wrote:
Personally? I think not - but maybe some of the instructor types might have other views...

The fact that the 206/R44/etc behave differently means you won't get used to the handling and issues you have with flying the 22. Given the extra costs involved in flying a bigger machine I would put the (if you have it to 'spare') towards more lessons in the 22 in the those conditions. Plus I think there is a limit to how many types/hrs you can use in your training in the UK?

Also you are going to be trying to learn a whole new machine and it controls, instruments and handling characteristics as well.

W.


Good advice in my opinion.

You can do a second type during PPL training - I did it with two (I think Confused) students. Unless changed, the rules are that you must have your 25 hours of dual including 5 hours instrument, and the 10 hours solo including the cross country, on one type. The second type will require a separate LST.
The 45 hours (or as adjusted with credits) can be the combination of hours on both types.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading various websites on the subject it seems that a lot of pilots have a fear of either 'falling' or of 'component failure' which makes some of them feel uneasy.

I'm fine at the top of the Eiffel Tower but hate the London Eye and detest high fairground rides yet have no problem in a 747!

Strange!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have done the 'two type ratings' in a ppl before, tried to this year and policy at the CAA said no (luckily before we got into it).

Their opinion was you can log the time, but caanot complete the type rating course during your PPL.
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ALFA8C
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this link on another forum, it is extremely interesting!

It was really strange to find that this pilot is much more relaxed while flying with cloud cover instead of bright blue skies and i'm the same..............I wish I knew why!

I had no idea Pilot Anxiety was so common!

http://www.hampshireplans.co.uk/AOPA/article.pdf
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think all you are experiencing, in all seriousness, is "bloody hell - I'm flying a helicopteritis." Don't underestimate the enormity of the task you are undertaking. Only months ago you have never had your hands on a helicopter and now are are flying one - that's quite a feat! It's that little nervousness coupled with a big portion of commonsense that separates you from the over-confident f***wits who are going to fly themselves into the side of a hill in weather that would have the rest of us sitting on the ground eating fast food in the cafe.

For what it's worth, a pilot I know was once criticised - wrongly, I think - by an instructor for being "over cautious." He is now one of the best pilot/instructors I know.
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