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HeliTorque :: View topic - New 44 Loss of Hydraulics, Ireland
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HeliTorque Forum Index » Flight Safety

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New 44 Loss of Hydraulics, Ireland
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raffski
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: New 44 Loss of Hydraulics, Ireland Reply with quote

http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/7074-0.pdf
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James T Lowe
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm. That's one more thing to double check before going up then.

I think the thing that strikes me immediately about this one, is that the pilot is 31 years old, with 106 hours logged. Very similar to me, and my experience. I just hope that if something like that happens to me, I'm able to do as good a job!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sat here at 0'AGL I would hope that I might try switching off hyd and then see how it flies... then again bearing in mind the vibration issue with the R22 blades and their failure might just put it down asap too!

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SuperF
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good on him. 106 hrs and gets it down in one piece. more experienced pilots than him have died from hydraulic failure, some on bigger machines but all should have been controlable.

Hydraulics off is a definite go in smaller machines. We practise it in JR and hueys, regularly, and you can fly them both with hydraulics off. JR not much of a problem, with the huey however you need to fly it like a 747, big long paddock, bring it home.

do you guys get to train hydr off for your ppl. if not, get you instructor to at least give you a go at 1,000' in straight and level, and go from there. 15 min you will be sweating(more than normal) but will see that they fly no problem.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

R44 hyd off is a feature of most check rides for me - switched off in the downwind and complete the circuit to a run on landing. Hard work, but a good exercise in smooth control.

I didn't understand the comment about landing in the estury in the analysis section of the report - there is nothing about engine failure, so the pilot should have been able to fly it to firm ground.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should you have a Hyd. failure, don't be in a hurry to put it on the ground. Find a nice paddock somewhere, or back to the airport if its near by, and take your time and set up a nice long final to your touch down spot. Be prepared to go around if it dosn't look right, but just take your time and do a nice shallow approuch with a gentle run on.
If you are not getting shown this on your check-rides, you should be. Go for an hour with a good instructor and have a practice. It really is nothing to be afraid of.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..

Last edited by Rdriver on Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hydraulics off was covered in the type conversion course, was tested at type conversion exam, and is checked at each LPC.

It's hard work to control, but it's not impossible - just have to muscle all that fluid through the pipes.
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SuperF
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RD

yes and no. I totally agree about 44, as originally they didn't have hydr.

the JR and Huey can be flowen without hydr. JR is only a little bit harder than a 500, from my limited experience with 500's!! the huey can be flowen as long as you have a few things on your side, reasonable weather, a biiiiig long paddock to put it down in, and arms like arnold schwarznagger.

i have heard that the 350 is a bit of a handful without hydr, never flowen them, don't know?

with the bells tho just keep them s&l and as prev said long flat approach.

as mike said, while you want to get them down soon, don't just dump collective and head downhill fast, as they will keep flying s&l as long as there is gas in the tank. you can sort yourself out, have a play?? to figure out how much control you have (or how strong you need to be) and find your paddock, or nearby airport to run in on. if you can get within 20' of the ground and can't get down further, just roll the throttle and slowly settle. if you have a hydr problem, switch the hydr off! if the pump is surging then you don't want a burst of pressure as you are pushing with all your might on the cyclic, otherwise it will all turn bad really fast.

ps adreniline will give you arms like arnie so no probs there.

pps "emergency" situation at 106 hrs and he didn't bend the machine, i still think the man deserves a beer. occasion5
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with SuperF, any abnormal situation at those low hours can be difficult. I'll buy him and his instuctor both a beer!!

As far as where he decided to land, I think he did the right thing. He felt a vibration he was unfamiliar with and decided to land. Having the flight control system in any helicopter respond in any way you are not entirely familiar with is scary.

Maybe someone else with more hours might have felt comfortable flying to a nice area for a run-on landing, but someone else wasn't flying that machine.

He was the pilot in command and made a decision based on his own training and his own experience under the given conditions. I say good job!!

Remember... it is always better to be on the ground wishing you were flying, than to be flying and wishing you were on the ground.

Fly Safe !!!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aviatorjames wrote:
Maybe someone else with more hours might have felt comfortable flying to a nice area for a run-on landing, but someone else wasn't flying that machine.


I'm not entirely sure I 100% agree with that. Training should include identification of problems, and how to deal with them for the greatest chance of succesful outcome. Richard M-Sanford will tell you that the only time to auto, is if there is sudden uncommanded yaw. Otherwise your choices are, as defined in the POH, land immediately or land as soon as practical. Now, in either case autorotation isn't required. Land as soon as practical gives you plenty of options (look for the swimming pool!). And land immediately is a bit more urgent - find the nearest favourable looking field, but I would suggest that one has a few moments to properly assess the situation and to find that field.

In this case, the pilot had made the decision to land immediately following "violent vibrations". I can't just find anything relating solely to vibrations, but in the POH under Warning/Caution lights, there is a note If light is accompanied by any indication of a problem, such as noise, vibration or temperature rise, land immediaetly. Given that, plus my reading of other AAIB reports, I almost certainly would have taken the very same decision, which I would perceive to be correct.

This report suggests that pilot experienced the control stiffness as a subsequent problem.

You seem to be suggesting that "someone else" would have immediately interpreted that vibration as hydraulic failure? Maybe so...

Now, our training of hydraulic failure involves flicking a switch. No vibration accompanies that. The report states that: "The pilot's experience of vibration coming through the cyclic control would have been caused by hydrualic pump cavitation"

aviatorjames wrote:
He was the pilot in command and made a decision based on his own training and his own experience under the given conditions. I say good job!!


Couldn't agree more. A successful outcome.

And this kind of report is exactly why I think everyone should take the time to read them!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

Last edited by Rdriver on Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RD fly a JR for 6 hrs a day without hydr, and you soon will have arms like arnie Laughing

righto, we all more or less agree, lets buy the man a beer. i don't think that i will be able to find him at my local, Dunno so i guess that i will have to drink it for him as well... Cheers!
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