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HeliTorque Forum Index » EMS, SAR & Law Enforcement

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madmag
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:53 am    Post subject: AIR RESCUE ALL OVER THE WORLD Reply with quote

I say hello to all aviators, interested in Air Rescue. The reason for that is, that I myself am active in Air Rescue in Germany. The Service I am flying for is the ADAC. It the most popular Air Rescue Service in Germany, I guess! Surprised)
I am interested in Air Recue Services all over the world to exchange information, impressions and experiences.
I hope to receive some feedback in future.
CU
Markus
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James T Lowe
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to Helitorque, madmag!

How does the ADAC involvement with SAR in Germany work? Is it a sponsorship type setup, or a service provided by the ADAC? If the latter, how is it funded?

I ask, because the Air Ambulance service in the UK is wholly reliant on charitable donations. Between 1999 and 2002, the AA (ADAC equivalent) provided ??14m to set up and operate a national network of Air Ambulances. That funding wasn't renewed in 2002, but amazingly, the air ambulances seem by and large still able to operate.

I just wonder how the connection between automobile clubs of our continental neighbours and the air rescue services, works.
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madmag
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

thanks for welcome me here at Helitorque. Now to your question, as far as I understood it right. Screw You

The ADAC is organized as an incoporated society and due to that fact finanzed by membership fees of over 15 million members. Also the health insurance companies have to pay for each mission flown for a patient, so the responsible social insurance agency will cover an amount of the mission. The rest has to be absorbed by the membership fees.

The ADAC was the pioneer in Air Rescue in Germany, starting in 1970. And it is still growing. Nearly 30 Rescue Stations with approximately 40 helicopters are based in the whole country. But the ADAC is not the only Air Rescue Service (there is also the Team DRF, our Federal Border Police and the Air Force). But it is the only Service, based on automobile club. And in my opinion that fact is the reason for a very successful formula.

Hopefully I answered your question. Pilot

CU again

Markus
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, the key there, is "health insurance" I think. A benefit, maybe, of a private heath care system.

If I remember correctly, the AA's pretence for the funding, was that they wanted to look after their members - and a majority of the Air Ambulance flights were to road traffic collisions.

Of course, since Centrica PLC bought the AA in late 1999 (and then sold it last year), it is no longer a society for members, but a business looking for profit. Which probably goes a long way to explaining why the funding wasn't continued past the initial commitment.
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biskit
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you guys ever fly with night vision goggles? If so, what kind of aircraft lighting do you use while goggled?
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madmag
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi biskit,

just to answer your question. We do not operate under NVG conditions, not yet. But I know, that operators in other countries do so. So do the swiss guys of the REGA. And in some scandinavian countries NVG flights are usual. The dutch Air Ambulance is just in the process to start NVG operations. But there are so many things to deal with first. And many questions to be answered. E.g. is it good to land in a big city with many disturbing lights, waking up hundreds of people. Flying in Finland e.g., were you have forests and a wide country with little population is different from flying in metropolitan areas like Berlin, Hamburg or the whole Ruhrgebiet.
But I don??t want to rule out, that we will fly NVG in some areas in Germany. Most of the Helicopters are already cockpit featured for those operations.

CU Markus

During my military life I??ve flown approx. 50 hours with NVG and I must say it is nice help but not for every area.
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biskit
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. Just curious who else is around here with goggles.

Keep on flying slow over the autobahns and stick with the bright yellow paint, it makes you guys easy to spot!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willkommen hier Markus!!! Very Happy
Klasse einen weiteren Landsede der Hubschrauber fliegt anzutreffen.

Sag mal Du bist nicht ein Freund von Bill ?

Ich kann Dir leider nicht viel helfen mit Deiner Frage da ich noch ziemlich neu zur Retturngsfliegerei bin, abgesehen davon das wir nur im hoechsten Notfall Rettungsfluege machen denn unsere erste Aufgabe ist Polizei fliegen, aber wir haben immer Platz fuer einen Patienten und einen Rettungsede.

Tell me Markus is it true that our country folk did a study which proved that for every Deutschmark you spent on HEMS 3 Deutschmarks would be saved later in the Hospital? Or is that a Myth?

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madmag
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Toby,
apart from the fact, that we already have the EURO, I don??t know anything about that mentioned study. So it must be a myth, I guess.

Bill? I don??t know Bill, not yet. But perhaps I will get in touch with him here in the forum.

Hey biskit,
so you are flying goggles in Germany or did I get it wrong?
The ADAC is flying at nighttimes only conventional without NVG. These are no primary rescue missions. These are intensiv care transports from hospital to hospital or airports to hospital. So the landing sites must be familiar to the crew and also be illuminated.

Markus
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biskit
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I go goggles as much as possible. I am only a bit south of you too.
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madmag
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hallo biskit,

very interesting so you are flying for a governmental service, Police or Armed Forces? Or do you perform NVG flights as a private flyer? I have never heard from guys flying NVG other than the two mentioned! Screw You

And just for your information, I do not fly in the northern part of Germany. My home base is in Bavaria. But I live in the north. So I ahve to travel a lot.

I would be very pleased to hear from you again.

CU
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmag - Actually here in NZ we have a lot of operators using NVGs and more all the time. I know one guy down in the mountains of the South Island who uses them all the time.

Standard Ag in Canada was also using NVGs on ag flying on their Bell 206B and AS350B3.

Its not as uncommon as you think and once people realise how useful they are I think you will find more and more people using them.

Wonder how long before Frank Robinson sells NVG equipped R-22s Shocked Shocked

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biskit
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I am military. I was just curious, as the only goggle flying I know of around here is military and Polizei. I think the polizei only fly goggles under limited circumstances too, not on a regular basis.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over here in Croatia, there is no full-time, independent air rescue service. As usual, things are organised a bit upside down, so our GSS (Gorska Sluzba Spasavanja - Mountain Rescue Service), as well as its air arm, is a voluntary service.

The helicopters themselves are provided by whoever can provide them, to be blunt, which means the military with it's Mi-8s, the police with its single B.212 (their only heli capable of handling SAR / ambulance missions) and a private company, HIKO, which was one of the contenders for the first national private SAR service (up until the contest was cancelled in favour of military Mi-17s) with a BK-117C-1 and an EC-145. You can imagine that with the hardware at hand, save for the EC-145 which is in full EMS config, air rescue ops are weather-limited.

The flight crews consist of highly proficient pilots on their respective type, while the med crew is made up of the country's best alpinists, skiiers, mountain climbers and speleologists, who work voluntarily and without pay. Despite setbacks and lack of full-time, fully-equipped air support, the service is very successful, fast and reliable.

The police B.212 (9A-HBM): http://www.airliners.net/open.file/608001/L/
HIKO BK-117C-1 (9A-HKB): http://www.airliners.net/open.file/881648/L/
HIKO EC-145 (9A-HKA): http://www.airliners.net/open.file/900677/L/
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi

i m one the dubai police air rescue pilot i m inrst to vist ADAC IN GERMANY & TO SEE THM WORK ?
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